[rescue] moussh [was Transplanting a Sun Fire V210 motherboard - PSU requirements?`]

Cory Smelosky b4 at gewt.net
Wed Feb 27 21:50:08 CST 2013

On 27 Feb 2013, at 22:43, Mouse <mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG> wrote:

>>>> How does moussh compare to other implementations?  [...]
>>> It's different.  It's got a bunch of stuff I'm not aware of in any
>>> other implementation ([...]).  And, of course, it's lacking in some
>>> respects as compared to others.
>> Nice.
> I hate monocultures.  (Come to think of it, that's another, albeit
> nontechical, respect in which I'm proud of it: I'm not just speaking
> out against monocultures, I'm actively providing an alternative in this
> case.)
>>> Things I'm particularly proud of:  [...]
>> I wonder if I could get it to build on 4.3BSD. ;)
> Hm.  Probably.  I'd certainly be up for helping resolve any issues you
> have with it.  At the very least I'd like to hear about them; I like to
> hear about portability issues with my code - even when I decide to
> write off particular bits of portability I like to do so knowingly.

It'd be an interesting challenge with 4.3BSD being pre-POSIX and pre-C89 and
all. ;)  I could always use GCC though if I need.

>>> As useful as POSIX has been, I think it's doing the computer world
>>> harm now, in that something that doesn't at least mostly fit a POSIX
>>> framework more or less can't be done.  [...]
>> POSIX is a rather nonstandard standard. ;)
> Yesss...but the problem is not the standard codifying the paradigm, but
> the paradigm's dominance in the first place.

Even windows is slightly POSIX compliantso I see your point.

>>> So, yeah, I would start by questioning everything.  Processes.
>>> Filesystems.  Sockets.  Do we need them?  What do they provide?  Are
>>> there other ways to satisfy the same underlying desires?  [...]
>> I'd also question "everything as a file" and "everything is a stream
>> of bytes".
> Well, yes.  Everything-as-a-file depends on having files, though, so if
> (for example) I do away with filesystems as we currently know them then
> everything-as-a-file perforce goes away too.
> Everything-is-a-byte-stream is, I think, even more central.  Files are
> just nonvolatile storage applied to bytestreams....
>> Implement proper message busses, and nonblocking queues.  Take a hint
>> or two from VMS with regards to filesystem.
> I went through my larval phase under VMS (many versions ago, back in
> the '80s) and still recall many aspects of it fondly.  It certainly
> will be an influence, one way or the other, on pretty much anything I
> do along these lines.

I love how some OSes are JUST NOW catching up to features VMS had on release
in the '70s...

> So, of course, will (almost?) every other OS I've used - negative
> influence, in the case of the ones I didn't/don't like. :-)
>>> What about UI paradigms?  There are a lot of those [...]
>> Please kill X.  It is time for it to die.
> Why?  (Not that I disagree, but I'm interested in what you think is
> wrong with it.)

It's greedy with memory, the protocol is still very outdated, the backwards
client-server model is a bit unnecessary in this day and age.  It shows its

>> A standard graphics subsystem that all drivers hook in to would be
>> nice as well.
> X is pretty close to that in its more recent implementations.  (I don't
> like the implementations, but not because I disagree with the paradigm
> at the level you just outlined it; I consider them bad fleshings-out of
> a good paradigm.)

Hmmmm.  It is hacked on to Xeverything at this point is.  It needs either a
complete rewrite or a replacement.

>> It would cause less issues and incompatibilities (nvidia rendering
>> fonts differently than amd on linux is an example of this issue)
> If nvidia and amd would just friggin' _document_ their bloody hardware,
> people could build software without such incompatibilities.


> Yet people continue to buy undocumented hardware.  From a very high
> level perspective, I see this as the user base getting what it
> deserves.  (The problem, of course, is that tyranny of the majority
> inflicts the resulting crapola on everybody else too.)

Unfortunately, yes.  I use older hardware/generic intel graphics for a reason.

>> I find just planning on fascinating.  I'm unable to implement my own
>> due to lack of knowledge.
> Lack of knowledge is fixable. :-)

Yes, but i'm more of a hardware-level guy than a software guy.

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