[geeks] christianity and judaism
s at avoidant.org
Wed Nov 10 16:54:41 CST 2004
On Nov 10, 2004, at 17:03, Michael Horton wrote:
> neither you nor i speak biblical hebrew.
Actually, I do. My modern Hebrew is lacking, though. I am a graduate
of Talmudical Academy of Baltimore and Yeshiva University of Los
Angeles. I studied hebrew grammar, both Biblical and modern, under
Rabbi Meir Mazuz, acknowledged as the foremost expert in the subject in
> (biblical hebrew had no pointings; they were added by the moserites
Because to one who knows the grammatical rules, the pronunciation is
obvious and simple. Unfortunately, most people don't know the rules.
> i never spoke hebrew because i am hearing impaired and even when i
> hear i couldn't distinguish all the sounds--particularly the vowel
Most jews have the same problem, hence the varied pronunciations among
scattered groups living in different areas of the world. Many people
can't hear the subtle differences.
> i haven't read the bible in hebrew in years.
> but i do remember my studies then and how to read a lexicon.
So you do read Hebrew. Do you understand what you read?
> the qal stem for kippur (three radicals, right) means "he covers"
> whereas atonement has the concept of taking away.
Leviticus 16:30 "Ki ba-yom ha-ze yechaper aleichem le-taher etchem
mi-kol hatoteichem lifnei Adonai tit-haru" For in this day atonement
will be on you to purify you from all your sins before God to cleanse
you. I can see from the context where one might say kapara is a
covering, since it says "aleichem - on you", but it's not.
There are two components here, atonement and cleansing. The service of
the High Priest helps provide atonement for the repentant, which
removes the liability to punishment, but to the extent that a habitual
sinner has become a different person, the effect of his actions remains
and must be cleansed.
> yom kippur provided a sacrifice that covered sins for a year (the blood
> of bulls and goats cannot take away or atone for sin) and points to a
> day when sin/s will be taken away (as far as the east is from the
The sacrifices of the day are part of the service commanded by the
Torah, and combined with the self-afflictions listed in Leviticus, it
provides the atonement. See Leviticus 16:29-34. The service of the
High Priest is commemorated in the prayers we recite on Yom Kippur
today since we no longer have the Temple.
> all are welcome to believe and worship, but that doesn't require a
> this is a distinction without difference.
There is a difference, or there'd be no need for a covenant.
> in its application to men and to praising god. since the covenant
> belongs to god and is maintained by god, he can extend it to whomever
I think I understand. From a Christian perspective, the covenant was
extended to Christians through Jesus. From a Jewish perspective,
though, it wasn't. I don't think you and I can resolve 2000 years of
religious disagreement here. It's nice to discuss so rationally,
> please realize that i am not trying to give you a "hard time"
I didn't think you were. I hope you know I'm not trying to give you a
hard time either.
> but am
> trying to explain in as gracious terms as i can muster and having the
> desire that the prophecy of zechariah be fulfilled in my lifetime.
Then we want the same thing. May we see it speedily fulfilled.
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