From swallbridge at franticfilms.com Tue Oct 1 01:56:58 2002 From: swallbridge at franticfilms.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 01:56:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] HD question Message-ID: <61387.24.66.68.209.1033455418.squirrel@mail.franticfilms.com> what kind of drive does THIS look like? http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=909303288 shawn From jp at celestrion.net Tue Oct 1 02:11:04 2002 From: jp at celestrion.net (Jonathan C. Patschke) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 02:11:04 -0500 Subject: [geeks] HD question In-Reply-To: <61387.24.66.68.209.1033455418.squirrel@mail.franticfilms.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > what kind of drive does THIS look like? > > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=909303288 Given the pin-count and the number of config jumpers, I'd say it's narrow SCSI-II. Given the position of the torx fasteners on the motor, the color of the rear connectors, the layout of the logic board, the bank of voltage-regulators at the front, and at least one ASIC that I recognize, I'd say that it's a circa 1993-1994 Conner hard drive, quite possibly the CP30204 or a similar drive in that line. Why do you ask? -- Jonathan Patschke "you know, there are people who like having potatoes and jellyjars shoved up their asses. there are also people who like coding in c. at any rate, why not pay somebody to hack your c instead of taking the jellyjar in your ass?" --alex j avriette From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Oct 1 02:13:39 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 03:13:39 -0400 Subject: [geeks] HD question In-Reply-To: <61387.24.66.68.209.1033455418.squirrel@mail.franticfilms.com> Message-ID: <4F754468-D50D-11D6-AB2D-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 02:56 AM, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > what kind of drive does THIS look like? > > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=909303288 Hmm, I have an EMAX II...not a IIHD, the one with SCSI. I wonder if this can be retrofitted. 8-) Oh, kinda looks like the bottom of a Connor drive to me. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Tue Oct 1 12:22:15 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:22:15 -0400 Subject: [geeks] CS GREs cancled for year Message-ID: <20021001172215.GA27552@cs.millersville.edu> http://www.ets.org/news/02082602.html Well, not all of them, but a lot. -- Joshua D. Boyd From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Oct 1 15:49:24 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:49:24 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Apple Laserwriter 16/600PS Message-ID: <44F8B9DF-D57F-11D6-AB2D-000393970B96@neurotica.com> I know there are some people here who have Apple LaserWriter 16/600PS printers, but I don't recall who offhand. I have a dumb question about them. I'm moving a few things around on my network, and I need to be able to print to this printer via TCP/IP from a different network. There doesn't seem to be a way to set a default gateway, though...only the IP address. My printer has Rev. 1.0 firmware (both PS and I/O). Is there someone with a later firmware release that can check to see if it has support for real routing? And if so, can I get a copy of that firmware? Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From woods at weird.com Tue Oct 1 16:27:48 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:27:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Apple Laserwriter 16/600PS In-Reply-To: <44F8B9DF-D57F-11D6-AB2D-000393970B96@neurotica.com> References: <44F8B9DF-D57F-11D6-AB2D-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20021001212748.CC710A@proven.weird.com> [ On Tuesday, October 1, 2002 at 16:49:24 (-0400), Dave McGuire wrote: ] > Subject: [geeks] Apple Laserwriter 16/600PS > > I know there are some people here who have Apple LaserWriter 16/600PS > printers, but I don't recall who offhand. ME me ME! Pick ME! :-) > I have a dumb question about > them. I'm moving a few things around on my network, and I need to be > able to print to this printer via TCP/IP from a different network. Why not install netatalk on some BSD-LPR capable unix host on that network and then spool through it? You get much better support for printing that way (eg. printed page accounting which actually works, proper error and status messages, etc.). The LPR implementation in the printer basically stinks. You could also probably set up better security much more easily for remote printing that way too, if that's a concern. > There doesn't seem to be a way to set a default gateway, though...only > the IP address. Hmmm.... It should work. Here's what I see when I telnet to it and select the "Display TCP/IP Info..." menu: **************************************************************************** LaserWriter 16/600 PS TCP/IP Interface Information Interface Status : Ready PostScript Banner Page : Disabled IP Address : Using network protocol (204.92.254.253) Subnet Mask : 255.255.255.0 Default Gateway : 204.92.254.6 Timeout Checking : Enabled Ethernet Address : 08:00:07:44:48:EC To return to main menu, press Enter. **************************************************************************** (I set the gateway to my main default gateway so I could test my firewall :-) > My printer has Rev. 1.0 firmware (both PS and I/O). Hmmm... I thought the 1.0 I/O PROMs were the same, but then again I may have had the 2.0 version before..... I can't seem to get my hands on an old configuration page at the moment, or find the old PROMs. > Is there someone > with a later firmware release that can check to see if it has support > for real routing? And if so, can I get a copy of that firmware? You can buy the new firmware from Apple for about $20. That's what I did. The following old Tech Tip contains the part number: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=20305 See also: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=18452 I don't know if the PROM burner I have (but have never used before) can copy PROMs, and if not then I've no easy way to read the 3.0 PROM I have (and I'm not lending it out to anyone for any amount of time! :-) If I can find the old PROM, and if it is 2.0, and if it does support a default gateway, then you can have it though. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Oct 1 16:40:44 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:40:44 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Apple Laserwriter 16/600PS In-Reply-To: <20021001212748.CC710A@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <70B95CA2-D586-11D6-AB2D-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 05:27 PM, Greg A. Woods wrote: >> Subject: [geeks] Apple Laserwriter 16/600PS >> >> I know there are some people here who have Apple LaserWriter >> 16/600PS >> printers, but I don't recall who offhand. > > ME me ME! Pick ME! :-) Weirdo. ;) > Why not install netatalk on some BSD-LPR capable unix host on that > network and then spool through it? You get much better support for > printing that way (eg. printed page accounting which actually works, > proper error and status messages, etc.). The LPR implementation in the > printer basically stinks. You could also probably set up better > security much more easily for remote printing that way too, if that's a > concern. I just didn't want to go through the trouble. Last I heard, netatalk had lots of 64-bit issues, and most of the machines here that I could use for that task are Alphas. >> There doesn't seem to be a way to set a default gateway, though...only >> the IP address. > > Hmmm.... It should work. Here's what I see when I telnet to it and > select the "Display TCP/IP Info..." menu: I'm doing it via the Apple Printer Utility under MacOS 9. Why? Because I don't have the password required to telnet to the printer. :-( Are you aware of a way around that? > You can buy the new firmware from Apple for about $20. That's what I > did. Hmm, I might do that. > I don't know if the PROM burner I have (but have never used before) can > copy PROMs, and if not then I've no easy way to read the 3.0 PROM I > have > (and I'm not lending it out to anyone for any amount of time! :-) Understood. I've never seen a prom burner that couln't copy, though. > If I can find the old PROM, and if it is 2.0, and if it does support a > default gateway, then you can have it though. That would be great! Thanks! -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From woods at weird.com Tue Oct 1 17:17:21 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Apple Laserwriter 16/600PS In-Reply-To: <70B95CA2-D586-11D6-AB2D-000393970B96@neurotica.com> References: <20021001212748.CC710A@proven.weird.com> <70B95CA2-D586-11D6-AB2D-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20021001221721.5FAE4A@proven.weird.com> [ On Tuesday, October 1, 2002 at 17:40:44 (-0400), Dave McGuire wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] Apple Laserwriter 16/600PS > > I just didn't want to go through the trouble. Last I heard, netatalk > had lots of 64-bit issues, and most of the machines here that I could > use for that task are Alphas. Rumour has it that the latest works on NetBSD/sparc64, but I haven't tried yet.... > >> There doesn't seem to be a way to set a default gateway, though...only > >> the IP address. > > > > Hmmm.... It should work. Here's what I see when I telnet to it and > > select the "Display TCP/IP Info..." menu: > > I'm doing it via the Apple Printer Utility under MacOS 9. Why? > Because I don't have the password required to telnet to the printer. > :-( Are you aware of a way around that? The manual says this in the troubleshooting section: The printer administrator forgot the password for the TCP/IP Printer Configuration Utility. See the service information that came with your pinter to learn how to get in touch with Apple. However if I remember right there's a low-level reset switch hidden on the main control board and it might reset the password. If you haven't opened one up before I strongly recommend checking the manual first (the PDF should still be available online from Apple). I think installing the new ROM reset the password too. The M$-Windows setup tool supposedly lets you change the password.... but maybe it requires the old one first.... -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 1 17:21:09 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] HD question In-Reply-To: <61387.24.66.68.209.1033455418.squirrel@mail.franticfilms.com> Message-ID: <20021001222109.8963.qmail@web9306.mail.yahoo.com> IIRC, any std 50 pin SCSI drive will work... THink they pulled that from an old IPC? ;^) Lionel --- Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > what kind of drive does THIS look like? > > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=909303288 ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 From andrew at sydelko.org Tue Oct 1 22:51:06 2002 From: andrew at sydelko.org (Andrew Sydelko) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:51:06 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Apple Laserwriter 16/600PS In-Reply-To: <70B95CA2-D586-11D6-AB2D-000393970B96@neurotica.com> References: <20021001212748.CC710A@proven.weird.com> <70B95CA2-D586-11D6-AB2D-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20021001225106.6eb287b4.andrew@sydelko.org> On Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:40:44 -0400 Dave McGuire wrote: > On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 05:27 PM, Greg A. Woods wrote: > >> Subject: [geeks] Apple Laserwriter 16/600PS > >> > >> I know there are some people here who have Apple LaserWriter > >> 16/600PS > >> printers, but I don't recall who offhand. > > > > ME me ME! Pick ME! :-) I also have a 16/600PS. And it was free, with the extra 500 page paper tray and the envelope feeder. > I'm doing it via the Apple Printer Utility under MacOS 9. Why? > Because I don't have the password required to telnet to the printer. > :-( Are you aware of a way around that? There is a "backdoor" password for them that I had to find for my printer. It's documented somewhere on Apple's Knowledge base. It's based on part of the MAC address. > > You can buy the new firmware from Apple for about $20. That's what I > > did. > > Hmm, I might do that. Yeah, me too. I'll have to remember to give them a call. --andy. From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Oct 1 23:42:41 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:42:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Oracle 7 books Message-ID: <629E2ABC-D5C1-11D6-AB2D-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Anybody here working with Oracle 7? I have a number of very good, pristine books on Oracle 7 here that cost a small fortune, but I haven't touched them in at least two years. Anyone interested in them? I'm looking for some Ultra1 RAM and/or some spud brackets in trade. I will send the list of books upon request. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From gary at linuxforce.org Wed Oct 2 00:15:28 2002 From: gary at linuxforce.org (Gary Nichols) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:15:28 -0700 (MST) Subject: [geeks] Apple finally admits eMac has display problems Message-ID: http://news.com.com/2100-1040-960376.html?tag=fd_top I remember the loooooong discussion we had about this eons ago. Looks like Apple is fessing up finally. Should make the guys in the eMac forums happy. -- gary(AT)linuxforce.org http://www.linuxchimp.com From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Wed Oct 2 09:16:46 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:16:46 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Firewire video on linux Message-ID: <20021002141646.GA5825@cs.millersville.edu> Has anyone tried this? Obviously it won't be as slick as a Mac, but hopefully it would be slicker than solaris or irix. -- Joshua D. Boyd From caleb at webninja.com Wed Oct 2 09:40:52 2002 From: caleb at webninja.com (Caleb Shay) Date: 02 Oct 2002 10:40:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Firewire video on linux In-Reply-To: <20021002141646.GA5825@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20021002141646.GA5825@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <1033569653.12713.2.camel@chinstrap.homeunix.net> I do this on a regular basis. What do you want to know? No, it's not slick at all, but it does work. Caleb On Wed, 2002-10-02 at 10:16, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > Has anyone tried this? Obviously it won't be as slick as a Mac, but > hopefully it would be slicker than solaris or irix. > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- Caleb Shay caleb at webninja.com http://www.webninja.com/ "The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was." -- Walt West [demime 0.99c.1 removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Oct 2 15:44:40 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:44:40 -0400 Subject: [geeks] beautiful sight Message-ID: Oh man, the picture in this story nearly brought tears to my eyes. Give it a quick look, you'll see what I mean! http://money.cnn.com/2002/10/02/news/companies/fastow/index.htm -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From shawn at synack-hosting.com Wed Oct 2 15:33:13 2002 From: shawn at synack-hosting.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:33:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] beautiful sight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <59397.139.142.208.98.1033590793.squirrel@mail.synack-hosting.com> > Oh man, the picture in this story nearly brought tears to my eyes. > Give it a quick look, you'll see what I mean! > > http://money.cnn.com/2002/10/02/news/companies/fastow/index.htm > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks Right on. We are actually working on a movie of the week about Enron. The lovely Shannon Elizabeth is in it (I have no idea why). They shot it here, I guess we can pass as Houston. shawn From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Oct 2 15:48:41 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:48:41 -0500 Subject: [geeks] beautiful sight In-Reply-To: <59397.139.142.208.98.1033590793.squirrel@mail.synack-hosting.com> References: <59397.139.142.208.98.1033590793.squirrel@mail.synack-hosting.com> Message-ID: <20021002204841.GT14140@mrbill.net> On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 03:33:13PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > They shot it here, I guess we can pass as Houston. any sufficiently ugly and dirty, polluted town can pass as Houston. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From shawn at synack-hosting.com Wed Oct 2 15:36:59 2002 From: shawn at synack-hosting.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:36:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] beautiful sight In-Reply-To: <20021002204841.GT14140@mrbill.net> References: <20021002204841.GT14140@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <55167.139.142.208.98.1033591019.squirrel@mail.synack-hosting.com> > On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 03:33:13PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: >> They shot it here, I guess we can pass as Houston. > > any sufficiently ugly and dirty, polluted town can pass as Houston. > > Bill > > -- > bill bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > austin, texas > _______________________________________________ Well I don't really think we meet any of those. Especially the polluted part. shawn From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Wed Oct 2 15:59:22 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:59:22 -0400 Subject: [geeks] beautiful sight In-Reply-To: <55167.139.142.208.98.1033591019.squirrel@mail.synack-hosting.com> References: <20021002204841.GT14140@mrbill.net> <55167.139.142.208.98.1033591019.squirrel@mail.synack-hosting.com> Message-ID: <20021002205922.GB21061@cs.millersville.edu> On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 03:36:59PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 03:33:13PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > >> They shot it here, I guess we can pass as Houston. > > > > any sufficiently ugly and dirty, polluted town can pass as Houston. > > Well I don't really think we meet any of those. Especially the polluted > part. But, dirt and pollution can always be added digitally. -- Joshua D. Boyd From swallbridge at franticfilms.com Wed Oct 2 16:04:30 2002 From: swallbridge at franticfilms.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 16:04:30 -0500 Subject: [geeks] beautiful sight References: <20021002204841.GT14140@mrbill.net> <55167.139.142.208.98.1033591019.squirrel@mail.synack-hosting.com> <20021002205922.GB21061@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <3D9B5F5E.3010304@franticfilms.com> Joshua D Boyd wrote: >On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 03:36:59PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > > >>>On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 03:33:13PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: >>> >>> >>>>They shot it here, I guess we can pass as Houston. >>>> >>>> >>>any sufficiently ugly and dirty, polluted town can pass as Houston. >>> >>> >>Well I don't really think we meet any of those. Especially the polluted >>part. >> >> > >But, dirt and pollution can always be added digitally. > > > True. But this thing is mega low budget. I would expect that they would shoot some footage in Houston, just to show it is Houston. Who knows. I doubt I will ever see it. shawn From dittman at dittman.net Wed Oct 2 16:10:43 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:10:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] beautiful sight In-Reply-To: from "Shawn Wallbridge" at Oct 02, 2002 03:33:13 PM Message-ID: <200210022110.g92LAhf07604@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Oh man, the picture in this story nearly brought tears to my eyes. > > Give it a quick look, you'll see what I mean! > > > > http://money.cnn.com/2002/10/02/news/companies/fastow/index.htm > > > > -Dave > > > > -- > > Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > > St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > Right on. > > We are actually working on a movie of the week about Enron. The lovely > Shannon Elizabeth is in it (I have no idea why). Maybe she's going to play one of the former Enron employees that posed for Playboy? -- Eric Dittman dittman at dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From kurt at k-huhn.com Wed Oct 2 16:32:28 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:32:28 -0400 Subject: [geeks] beautiful sight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021002173228.55ef6436.kurt@k-huhn.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > Oh man, the picture in this story nearly brought tears to my eyes. > > Give it a quick look, you'll see what I mean! > > http://money.cnn.com/2002/10/02/news/companies/fastow/index.htm > Oh man...what a *sniff* wonderful sight! There _is_ karma, after all. The balance of power begins to sway back... -- Kurt "What me look like, ricecake monster? kurt at k-huhn.com Me Cookie Monster! Me need COOKIE!" --Cookie Monster From Brian.Dunbar at plexus.com Wed Oct 2 16:39:25 2002 From: Brian.Dunbar at plexus.com (Brian Dunbar) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:39:25 -0500 Subject: [geeks] beautiful sight Message-ID: <93EF56FF0BD1234E8D1C74B9813E0EA0013F1DBA@neen-mail-003.na.plexus.com> -----Original Message----- From: Kurt Huhn [mailto:kurt at k-huhn.com] Dave McGuire wrote: > Oh man, the picture in this story nearly brought tears to my eyes. > > Give it a quick look, you'll see what I mean! > > http://money.cnn.com/2002/10/02/news/companies/fastow/index.htm > Oh man...what a *sniff* wonderful sight! There _is_ karma, after all. The balance of power begins to sway back... You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Mocking a man, a good man who was just doing his best to make an honest dollar .... ah hell, I hope they put the cuffs on extra tight. Brian From kris at catonic.net Wed Oct 2 18:53:25 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:53:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] beautiful sight In-Reply-To: <59397.139.142.208.98.1033590793.squirrel@mail.synack-hosting.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > We are actually working on a movie of the week about Enron. The lovely > Shannon Elizabeth is in it (I have no idea why). > > They shot it here, I guess we can pass as Houston. down boy! dammit, he's not listening. ;-) -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Wed Oct 2 22:31:24 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:31:24 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SSH scripting question Message-ID: <20021003033124.GA3346@cs.millersville.edu> I've been combing the SSH man page trying to figure out how to pass a password to ssh without actually typing it (like so that I can have SSH do things remotely via shell script unattended). Bueller? Bueller? -- Joshua D. Boyd From crisco_kid at shaw.ca Wed Oct 2 22:54:21 2002 From: crisco_kid at shaw.ca (Dave Kimmel) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:54:21 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [geeks] SSH scripting question In-Reply-To: <20021003033124.GA3346@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021002214952.G91152-100000@rapier.gsm> On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > I've been combing the SSH man page trying to figure out how to pass a > password to ssh without actually typing it (like so that I can have SSH > do things remotely via shell script unattended). Take a look at the RSA authentication bits, I think that does what you want. I did this a long, long time ago and it worked really nicely for the most part. From what I recall, I just had to set up the public and private keys properly on both machines and it just worked. -- Dave Kimmel crisco_kid at shaw.ca From dpassmor at sneakers.org Wed Oct 2 23:00:09 2002 From: dpassmor at sneakers.org (David Passmore) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:00:09 -0700 Subject: [geeks] SSH scripting question In-Reply-To: <20021003033124.GA3346@cs.millersville.edu>; from jdboyd@cs.millersville.edu on Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 11:31:24PM -0400 References: <20021003033124.GA3346@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021002210009.L19507@sneakers.org> On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 11:31:24PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > I've been combing the SSH man page trying to figure out how to pass a > password to ssh without actually typing it (like so that I can have SSH > do things remotely via shell script unattended). > Create a public/private key pair with a blank passphrase (IE, hit return when it asks for one). David From david at cantrell.org.uk Thu Oct 3 04:41:16 2002 From: david at cantrell.org.uk (David Cantrell) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:41:16 +0100 Subject: [geeks] SSH scripting question In-Reply-To: <20021003033124.GA3346@cs.millersville.edu>; from jdboyd@cs.millersville.edu on Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 11:31:24PM -0400 References: <20021003033124.GA3346@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021003104116.C7215@barnyard.co.uk> On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 11:31:24PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > I've been combing the SSH man page trying to figure out how to pass a > password to ssh without actually typing it (like so that I can have SSH > do things remotely via shell script unattended). Either use a passphrase-less key, or use ssh-agent. -- David Cantrell | Benevolent Dictator | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david All praise the Sun God For He is a Fun God Ra Ra Ra! From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 3 07:20:28 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 05:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] beautiful sight In-Reply-To: <55167.139.142.208.98.1033591019.squirrel@mail.synack-hosting.com> Message-ID: <20021003122028.98443.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 03:33:13PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > >> They shot it here, I guess we can pass as Houston. Canada is the great "backlot" for many movies... It probably has more to do with an obliging local Gov't as it does anything else... Besides, it is so close to US, and in many locations they still speak English! ;^) Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 From brooke at gravitt.org Thu Oct 3 08:57:01 2002 From: brooke at gravitt.org (brooke) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:57:01 -0400 Subject: [geeks] [WTB/T]: SGI O2 Message-ID: Hey people, I'm looking to acquire a nice O2 to play with. Does anyone have one they'd be willing to part with? I've got several PowerMac 8500s and a metric buttload of other peripherals, accessories, and junk that I could also trade for one. Thanks, Brooke From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Oct 3 16:42:29 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:42:29 -0500 Subject: [geeks] ADMIN NOTE: Upcoming downtime (this weekend) Message-ID: <20021003214229.GS14140@mrbill.net> Hey, everyone.. This machine (and therefore the sunhelp.org web pages and mailing lists) will be down for a short period of time Saturday (10/05/02) morning or afternoon (whenever I make it out of bed and downtown), so that I can do some final rsyncs across the network, shut down the old server, then bring up the new one under the same IP address as the old one. So, no need to bombard me with "EVERYTHING'S DOWN!" emails, that I wont get, of course, until things are *back up*. 8-) (as part of the migration, new machine has Solaris 9, updated software packages, etc..) Thanks. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From jp at celestrion.net Thu Oct 3 17:08:11 2002 From: jp at celestrion.net (Jonathan C. Patschke) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:08:11 -0500 Subject: [geeks] D'oh! Message-ID: The lazy admin's guide to fucking over a mail server: Step 1: Subscribe to half a dozen or so of the lists at Sunhelp. Step 2: Invite your SO (who is subscribed to serveral high-traffic lists) and several of your friends to use your server as their primary mail server. Step 3: Upgrade postfix using GCC on IRIX, and then go to bed. Step 4: Wake up to no mail and lots of rejected connections from 255.255.255.255 in /var/adm/SYSLOG. Step 5: Upgrade postfix using MIPSpro on IRIX to fix the inet_ntoa() problem. Step 6: ssh into your secondary MX and type "sudo postfix flush". Step 7: Realize, as the system load average hits 10.00 and above, that you probably should've either turned off spamassassin, or used spamd. Step 8: Go to lunch. Make sure to follow up with tasty flammable liquids. -- Jonathan Patschke "you know, there are people who like having potatoes and jellyjars shoved up their asses. there are also people who like coding in c. at any rate, why not pay somebody to hack your c instead of taking the jellyjar in your ass?" --alex j avriette From sjh at waroffice.net Thu Oct 3 17:11:48 2002 From: sjh at waroffice.net (Steven Hill) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 17:11:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] D'oh! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sounds like you need... BBQ therapy. :-) -- Steven Hill This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. From nimitz at owc.net Thu Oct 3 23:18:26 2002 From: nimitz at owc.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 23:18:26 -0500 Subject: [geeks] DNS/Speakeasy DSL question... Message-ID: <3D9D1692.6010801@owc.net> Just got my DSL circuit turned on - waiting for the router in the mail. Does anybody on the list use Speakeasy.net to host their domain with their own DNS and mail servers? I really don't want to pay $19/month for DNS hosting when I have perfectly serviceable IPX boxen here that would do that nicely. Also if they have a policy against allowing customers control of Reverse DNS does that mean that they only allow hosting a domain through them? I'm going to pick up the O'Reilly's "bug book" this weekend, hopefully the answers to at least some of my questions will be in there. Mike Hebel From matthew at poertner.net Fri Oct 4 01:57:08 2002 From: matthew at poertner.net (Matthew Poertner) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 23:57:08 -0700 Subject: [geeks] DNS/Speakeasy DSL question... References: <20021004053002.GA27449@moctezuma.malleable.org> Message-ID: <3D9D3BC3.F6396176@poertner.net> I use Speakeasy and have nothing but good things to say about them. I host my own DNS, mail, and all the fixin's with no complaints. They were actually really helpful when I asked about setting up reverse DNS. I've used them for about a year now and haven't had any disruption in service. Hope this helps! Matt > Just got my DSL circuit turned on - waiting for the router in the mail. > > Does anybody on the list use Speakeasy.net to host their domain with > their own DNS and mail servers? I really don't want to pay $19/month > for DNS hosting when I have perfectly serviceable IPX boxen here that > would do that nicely. > > Also if they have a policy against allowing customers control of Reverse > DNS does that mean that they only allow hosting a domain through them? > > I'm going to pick up the O'Reilly's "bug book" this weekend, hopefully > the answers to at least some of my questions will be in there. > > Mike Hebel > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From schiller at agrijag.com Fri Oct 4 02:54:13 2002 From: schiller at agrijag.com (Michael Schiller) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 03:54:13 -0400 Subject: [geeks] DNS/Speakeasy DSL question... References: <3D9D1692.6010801@owc.net> Message-ID: <3D9D48F7.9C45DA72@agrijag.com> Mike Hebel wrote: > Also if they have a policy against allowing customers control of Reverse > DNS does that mean that they only allow hosting a domain through them? I don't know anything about Speakeasy, but my question to you is this: When you say no customer control of reverse DNS do you mean that they won't delegate authority to you, or are they not even willing to do the reverse to your hostnames (that you tell them what they are)? The few times I've had a subnet of static IPs the ISPs have always been willing to change the reverse DNS to the hostnames I've supplied them. -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email:schiller at nospam.agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * * (o o) * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From kurt at k-huhn.com Fri Oct 4 09:09:31 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:09:31 -0400 Subject: [geeks] DNS/Speakeasy DSL question... In-Reply-To: <3D9D1692.6010801@owc.net> References: <3D9D1692.6010801@owc.net> Message-ID: <20021004100931.787bdc00.kurt@k-huhn.com> Mike Hebel wrote: > Just got my DSL circuit turned on - waiting for the router in the mail. > > Does anybody on the list use Speakeasy.net to host their domain with > their own DNS and mail servers? I really don't want to pay $19/month > for DNS hosting when I have perfectly serviceable IPX boxen here that > would do that nicely. Speakeasy, when I had them a few months ago at $work[-1], had no restrictions on the type of servers you installed on your net. Reverse DNS for your range won't happen, though you *will* be able to do regular DNS with zero problems. > > Also if they have a policy against allowing customers control of Reverse > DNS does that mean that they only allow hosting a domain through them? > No. Setup your DNS server, point your whois info to it, and configure it to serve your domian. Setup your web server, start serving web pages. Easy as pie. -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Oct 4 15:09:07 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (mrbill) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:09:07 +0200 (added by postmaster@mail.tiscali.it) Subject: [geeks] Fw:geeks,look,my beautiful girl friend Message-ID: <3D897156008CF22E@mail-3.tiscalinet.it> (added by postmaster@mail.tiscali.it) From kris at catonic.net Fri Oct 4 15:31:21 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:31:21 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Fw:geeks,look,my beautiful girl friend In-Reply-To: <3D897156008CF22E@mail-3.tiscalinet.it> (added by postmaster@mail.tiscali.it) Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, mrbill wrote: > Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:09:07 +0200 (added by postmaster at mail.tiscali.it) > From: mrbill > Reply-To: geeks at sunhelp.org > To: geeks at sunhelp.org > Subject: [geeks] Fw:geeks,look,my beautiful girl friend *SNORK*. BWHAHAHAHAH! We all know Bill's completely opposed to allowing anyone to wank to his wife's pictures but him.... :) -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Oct 4 15:37:32 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:37:32 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Fw:geeks,look,my beautiful girl friend In-Reply-To: References: <3D897156008CF22E@mail-3.tiscalinet.it> Message-ID: <20021004203732.GQ13307@mrbill.net> On Fri, Oct 04, 2002 at 08:31:21PM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, mrbill wrote: > > Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:09:07 +0200 (added by postmaster at mail.tiscali.it) > > From: mrbill > > Reply-To: geeks at sunhelp.org > > To: geeks at sunhelp.org > > Subject: [geeks] Fw:geeks,look,my beautiful girl friend > *SNORK*. BWHAHAHAHAH! We all know Bill's completely opposed to allowing > anyone to wank to his wife's pictures but him.... :) Ugh, this WAS NOT ME. Klez, I suspect. Time to block that tiscali mail server. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From nimitz at owc.net Fri Oct 4 17:24:07 2002 From: nimitz at owc.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:24:07 -0500 Subject: [geeks] DNS/Speakeasy DSL question... References: <20021004053002.GA27449@moctezuma.malleable.org> <3D9D3BC3.F6396176@poertner.net> Message-ID: <3D9E1507.5060909@owc.net> Very cool. Thanks! Mike Hebel (Waiting for his router in the mail...) Matthew Poertner wrote: > I use Speakeasy and have nothing but good things to say about them. I > host my own DNS, mail, and all the fixin's with no complaints. They > were actually really helpful when I asked about setting up reverse DNS. > I've used them for about a year now and haven't had any disruption in > service. > > Hope this helps! > Matt > > >>Just got my DSL circuit turned on - waiting for the router in the mail. >> >>Does anybody on the list use Speakeasy.net to host their domain with >>their own DNS and mail servers? I really don't want to pay $19/month >>for DNS hosting when I have perfectly serviceable IPX boxen here that >>would do that nicely. >> >>Also if they have a policy against allowing customers control of Reverse >>DNS does that mean that they only allow hosting a domain through them? >> >>I'm going to pick up the O'Reilly's "bug book" this weekend, hopefully >>the answers to at least some of my questions will be in there. >> >>Mike Hebel >>_______________________________________________ >>GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From nimitz at owc.net Fri Oct 4 17:26:45 2002 From: nimitz at owc.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:26:45 -0500 Subject: [geeks] DNS/Speakeasy DSL question... References: <3D9D1692.6010801@owc.net> <3D9D48F7.9C45DA72@agrijag.com> Message-ID: <3D9E15A5.5030409@owc.net> It's in the AUP but I think from what other people are telling me that's just a CYA clause and that they probably will do it if you ask _them_ to do it. We'll just have to wait and see. Mike Hebel (Wondering if an Airport will support a standard PC or a Linksys WAP will support a Mac...) Michael Schiller wrote: > Mike Hebel wrote: > > >>Also if they have a policy against allowing customers control of Reverse >>DNS does that mean that they only allow hosting a domain through them? > > > I don't know anything about Speakeasy, but my question to you is this: When > you say no customer control of reverse DNS do you mean that they won't > delegate authority to you, or are they not even willing to do the reverse > to your hostnames (that you tell them what they are)? The few times I've > had a subnet of static IPs the ISPs have always been willing to change the > reverse DNS to the hostnames I've supplied them. > -- > -Mike > *------------------------------------------------------------------* > *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * > *Email:schiller at nospam.agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * > * (o o) * > *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From nimitz at owc.net Fri Oct 4 17:28:10 2002 From: nimitz at owc.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:28:10 -0500 Subject: [geeks] DNS/Speakeasy DSL question... References: <3D9D1692.6010801@owc.net> <20021004100931.787bdc00.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <3D9E15FA.1060605@owc.net> Thansk Kurt! Now I'll have to go out and buy the "bug book" that I didn't have any priority to buy until now. *grin* Mike Hebel (Soon to be www.nimitzbrood.com ...) Kurt Huhn wrote: > Mike Hebel wrote: > > >>Just got my DSL circuit turned on - waiting for the router in the mail. >> >>Does anybody on the list use Speakeasy.net to host their domain with >>their own DNS and mail servers? I really don't want to pay $19/month >>for DNS hosting when I have perfectly serviceable IPX boxen here that >>would do that nicely. > > > Speakeasy, when I had them a few months ago at $work[-1], had no > restrictions on the type of servers you installed on your net. Reverse DNS > for your range won't happen, though you *will* be able to do regular DNS > with zero problems. > > >>Also if they have a policy against allowing customers control of Reverse >>DNS does that mean that they only allow hosting a domain through them? >> > > > No. Setup your DNS server, point your whois info to it, and configure it to > serve your domian. Setup your web server, start serving web pages. Easy as > pie. From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Oct 4 17:31:17 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:31:17 -0500 Subject: [geeks] DNS/Speakeasy DSL question... In-Reply-To: <3D9E15A5.5030409@owc.net> References: <3D9D1692.6010801@owc.net> <3D9D48F7.9C45DA72@agrijag.com> <3D9E15A5.5030409@owc.net> Message-ID: <20021004223117.GU13307@mrbill.net> On Fri, Oct 04, 2002 at 05:26:45PM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > Mike Hebel > (Wondering if an Airport will support a standard PC or a Linksys WAP > will support a Mac...) Either/both. The Airport is just a Lucent AP with different enclosure and slightly different firmware (the RG-1000). Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From nimitz at owc.net Fri Oct 4 17:31:40 2002 From: nimitz at owc.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:31:40 -0500 Subject: [geeks] DNS/Speakeasy DSL question... References: <3D9D1692.6010801@owc.net> <3D9D48F7.9C45DA72@agrijag.com> <3D9E15A5.5030409@owc.net> <20021004223117.GU13307@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3D9E16CC.1040200@owc.net> Kewl. Time to put all my surplus junk up on E-Bay to pay for an Airport card and Airport. ;-) Mike Hebel Bill Bradford wrote: > On Fri, Oct 04, 2002 at 05:26:45PM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > >>Mike Hebel >>(Wondering if an Airport will support a standard PC or a Linksys WAP >>will support a Mac...) > > > Either/both. > > The Airport is just a Lucent AP with different enclosure and slightly > different firmware (the RG-1000). > > Bill From kurt at k-huhn.com Fri Oct 4 19:18:39 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:18:39 -0400 Subject: [geeks] DNS/Speakeasy DSL question... In-Reply-To: <3D9E15FA.1060605@owc.net> References: <3D9D1692.6010801@owc.net> <20021004100931.787bdc00.kurt@k-huhn.com> <3D9E15FA.1060605@owc.net> Message-ID: <20021004201839.715c84ae.kurt@k-huhn.com> Mike Hebel wrote: > Thansk Kurt! Now I'll have to go out and buy the "bug book" that I > didn't have any priority to buy until now. *grin* > I'm seriously thinking about getting Speakeasy DSL here - Adelphia cable Internet sucks hot lava rocks... -- Kurt "What me look like, ricecake monster? kurt at k-huhn.com Me Cookie Monster! Me need COOKIE!" --Cookie Monster From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Oct 5 12:16:02 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 12:16:02 -0500 Subject: [geeks] maintenance soon Message-ID: <20021005171602.GL13307@mrbill.net> This machine is going down for maintenance and may not be back up for a couple of hours. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Oct 5 16:09:49 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 16:09:49 -0500 Subject: [geeks] test Message-ID: <20021005210949.GR1223@mrbill.net> testing -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From wpointon at earthlink.net Sat Oct 5 16:16:05 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:16:05 -0400 Subject: [geeks] test In-Reply-To: <20021005210949.GR1223@mrbill.net> Message-ID: looks good to me bill On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 05:09 , Bill Bradford wrote: > testing > > -- > bill bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > austin, texas > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Oct 5 20:05:41 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:05:41 -0500 Subject: [geeks] FS: Sun AXi rackmount server Message-ID: <20021006010540.GN16101@mrbill.net> I've got the "old" SunHELP/mrbill.net server for sale, now that I've replaced it: - 2U rackmount (ATX) enclosure, black faceplate (does NOT have rack/slide rails, but there are screw holes to attach some.. I sat the machine on a shelf) - Sun AXi motherboard - 440Mhz (2M L2 cache) CPU - 256M (4 x 64M) memory, 4 slots open - SCSI CD-ROM drive (unsure of speed; just used it to install the OS) - Floppy drive (3.5" 1.44MB, I never used it) - 9G SCSI fast/wide HD (Quantum) internal; room for one more 3.5" internal - 2 68-pin fast/wide SCSI busses (one internal, one external) - serial, parallel ports (etc) Will include CD-R copy of Solaris 9 (or Solaris 8, your choice). Will do fresh full install of your chosen version of Solaris on the system. Pictures: http://www.sunhelp.org/images/newohno/ (taken a year ago, when I was putting this machine in service) $450 + shipping (from 78758). PayPal, cashier's checks, money orders, etc accepted (paypal preferred). Email me if you're interested or with any questions. I had this machine connected to a D1000 drive array for almost a year, and its worked flawlessly. I just dont have a need for it now that I've replaced it. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From chris at yonderway.com Sat Oct 5 20:35:29 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 21:35:29 -0400 Subject: [geeks] the world's most expensive case mod Message-ID: http://www.rm-r.net/~bri/casemod/ The site has been slashdotted so you may want to sit on this one for a day or two before trying it. But this has to be the coolest use of auxiliary case lighting that I've ever seen. Chris Hedemark Professional Computer Consulting & Videography Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." -Steve Wright From scott at doc.net.au Sat Oct 5 20:51:26 2002 From: scott at doc.net.au (Scott Howard) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:51:26 +1000 Subject: [geeks] the world's most expensive case mod In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021006015126.GA27003@milliways.doc.net.au> On Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 09:35:29PM -0400, Chris Hedemark wrote: > http://www.rm-r.net/~bri/casemod/ > > The site has been slashdotted so you may want to sit on this one for a > day or two before trying it. But this has to be the coolest use of > auxiliary case lighting that I've ever seen. It's mirrored at http://mosascii.com/sd/casemod/casemod.htm which is much faster than the original. Scott From scott at doc.net.au Sat Oct 5 20:52:50 2002 From: scott at doc.net.au (Scott Howard) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:52:50 +1000 Subject: [geeks] FS: Sun AXi rackmount server In-Reply-To: <20021006010540.GN16101@mrbill.net> References: <20021006010540.GN16101@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20021006015250.GB27003@milliways.doc.net.au> On Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 08:05:41PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > I've got the "old" SunHELP/mrbill.net server for sale, now that I've > replaced it: Didn't this machine run sunmanagers for a time? If so, make up a certificate to that fact, put it on ebay, and you'll get 10x what it's worth. Well, it worked for Mitnicks laptop, why not for sunmanagers :) Scott From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Oct 5 20:55:33 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:55:33 -0500 Subject: [geeks] FS: Sun AXi rackmount server In-Reply-To: <20021006015250.GB27003@milliways.doc.net.au> References: <20021006010540.GN16101@mrbill.net> <20021006015250.GB27003@milliways.doc.net.au> Message-ID: <20021006015533.GS16101@mrbill.net> On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 11:52:50AM +1000, Scott Howard wrote: > Didn't this machine run sunmanagers for a time? If so, make up a > certificate to that fact, put it on ebay, and you'll get 10x what it's > worth. Heh, yeah, it ran sunmanagers for about six months. About a gig of outgoing mail a day due to that, in fact. Now, sunmanagers runs on a SMP SS10 (not U10, SS10) at toronto.edu, but I still manage it. > Well, it worked for Mitnicks laptop, why not for sunmanagers :) Heh, I wish. 8-) Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From shawn at synack-hosting.com Sat Oct 5 20:45:08 2002 From: shawn at synack-hosting.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:45:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] FS: Sun AXi rackmount server In-Reply-To: <20021006010540.GN16101@mrbill.net> References: <20021006010540.GN16101@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <52378.24.66.68.209.1033868708.squirrel@mail.synack-hosting.com> I'll be the first to ask, what did you replace it with? shawn > I've got the "old" SunHELP/mrbill.net server for sale, now that I've > replaced it: > > - 2U rackmount (ATX) enclosure, black faceplate > (does NOT have rack/slide rails, but there are screw holes to attach > some.. I sat the machine on a shelf) > - Sun AXi motherboard > - 440Mhz (2M L2 cache) CPU > - 256M (4 x 64M) memory, 4 slots open > - SCSI CD-ROM drive (unsure of speed; just used it to install the OS) > - Floppy drive (3.5" 1.44MB, I never used it) > - 9G SCSI fast/wide HD (Quantum) internal; room for one more 3.5" > internal - 2 68-pin fast/wide SCSI busses (one internal, one external) > - serial, parallel ports (etc) > > Will include CD-R copy of Solaris 9 (or Solaris 8, your choice). Will > do fresh full install of your chosen version of Solaris on the system. > > Pictures: > > http://www.sunhelp.org/images/newohno/ > > (taken a year ago, when I was putting this machine in service) > > $450 + shipping (from 78758). PayPal, cashier's checks, money orders, > etc accepted (paypal preferred). > > Email me if you're interested or with any questions. I had this > machine connected to a D1000 drive array for almost a year, and its > worked flawlessly. I just dont have a need for it now that I've > replaced it. > > Bill > > -- > bill bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > austin, texas > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Oct 5 21:16:10 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 21:16:10 -0500 Subject: [geeks] FS: Sun AXi rackmount server In-Reply-To: <52378.24.66.68.209.1033868708.squirrel@mail.synack-hosting.com> References: <20021006010540.GN16101@mrbill.net> <52378.24.66.68.209.1033868708.squirrel@mail.synack-hosting.com> Message-ID: <20021006021610.GX16101@mrbill.net> On Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 08:45:08PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > I'll be the first to ask, what did you replace it with? Actually, a U5/333 (2M), with 256MB RAM, and an 80G Western Digital IDE drive (one of the special editions w/8M cache; helps make up for the IDE/SCSI performance difference). Needed to reduce my rack space usage at the colo, needed to reduce my reliance on (expensive) SCSI drives (I couldnt afford to replace them if any more went bad, and I'd already lost an 18G). So, basically, its 100Mhz slower and has IDE instead of SCSI, but is identical (platform-wise). New machine appears to be working fine - we werent CPU or IO-bound on the old box, and the new box appears okay (except when I'm compiling 2 or 3 things at once, of course). Runs about 10% CPU load (unless I'm doing things like updating the search engine index... ) Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From kris at catonic.net Sun Oct 6 04:27:49 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 09:27:49 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Net-printer-thingies Message-ID: I've got at least two printers (inkjet and laser) I want to network to lpd and Windoze. I'm thinking the best, cheapest, smallest way to do this is a jet-direct type of device; I want to keep from implementing a full PC to do this. Objectives are: Ease-of-use, low power consumption, multiple (2x parallel) ports. Bidirectional 'doze communication a plus. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From shawn at synack-hosting.com Sun Oct 6 05:04:37 2002 From: shawn at synack-hosting.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: 06 Oct 2002 05:04:37 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Scanners -- the radio kind Message-ID: <1033898677.18323.4.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> I have always wanted a scanner, but never actually got around to buying one. Does anyone have any recommendations? I don't really know much about them, but I would like one that doesn't have any blocked frequencies (if they do that). Anyone have any suggestions on where to read more? My plan is to put it in the basement with my computers, so I will have to go with an external antenna (I would assume). I will probably feed it into a normal stereo receiver (or a mixer (which I think I am going to try to build myself) before the reciever, along with various computers). If that is even possible. shawn From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Oct 6 07:20:44 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 07:20:44 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Scanners -- the radio kind In-Reply-To: <1033898677.18323.4.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> References: <1033898677.18323.4.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> Message-ID: <20021006122044.GI16101@mrbill.net> On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 05:04:37AM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > I have always wanted a scanner, but never actually got around to buying > one. > Does anyone have any recommendations? I don't really know much about > them, but I would like one that doesn't have any blocked frequencies > (if they do that). > Anyone have any suggestions on where to read more? Radio Shack Pro-2006. I'm still kicking myself for selling my highly-modded one two years ago. I have the "Cheek 3" mods book about the -2006, if you do get one.. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 6 08:33:31 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 06:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Net-printer-thingies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021006133331.87587.qmail@web9307.mail.yahoo.com> CompUSA has a 2-port Netgear print server for $100... I've also seen "strap-on" printservers new for as low as $40-50/ea recently (places like Staples have them on sale occasionally)... HTH, Lionel --- Kris Kirby wrote: > I've got at least two printers (inkjet and laser) I want to network > to lpd and Windoze. I'm thinking the best, cheapest, smallest way > to do this is a jet-direct type of device; I want to keep from > implementing a full PC to do this. Objectives are: Ease-of-use, low > power consumption, multiple (2x parallel) ports. Bidirectional > 'doze communication a plus. ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 6 08:40:06 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 06:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Scanners -- the radio kind In-Reply-To: <1033898677.18323.4.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> Message-ID: <20021006134006.88358.qmail@web9307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > I have always wanted a scanner, but never actually got around to > buying one. OK > Does anyone have any recommendations? I don't really know much about > them, but I would like one that doesn't have any blocked frequencies > (if they do that). Being in Canada, I don't think you have to worry about "blocked" freq. - that is (IIRC) a US Gov't. law, not international. > Anyone have any suggestions on where to read more? Sorry, best advice is Google... > My plan is to put it in the basement with my computers, so I will > have to go with an external antenna (I would assume). Most every scanner that might appeal to you would have ext antenna jack. > I will probably feed it into a normal stereo receiver (or a mixer > (which I think I am going to try to build myself) before the > reciever, along with various computers). If that is even possible. Of course, line-out is very common... You might want to look at the "PC" radios - I think some cover wide freq. spectrum (ICOM, TenTec, others leap to mind)... Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Oct 6 12:54:15 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:54:15 -0500 Subject: [geeks] price reduced: 440Mhz AXi rackmount server (2U) Message-ID: <20021006175415.GN16101@mrbill.net> Price reduced: $400 (shipping included). Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 6 14:57:25 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:57:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] the world's most expensive case mod In-Reply-To: <20021006015126.GA27003@milliways.doc.net.au> Message-ID: That stuff is pretty slick. I like it. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Scott Howard wrote: > On Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 09:35:29PM -0400, Chris Hedemark wrote: > > http://www.rm-r.net/~bri/casemod/ > > > > The site has been slashdotted so you may want to sit on this one for a > > day or two before trying it. But this has to be the coolest use of > > auxiliary case lighting that I've ever seen. > > It's mirrored at http://mosascii.com/sd/casemod/casemod.htm which is much > faster than the original. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Oct 6 22:26:14 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:26:14 -0500 Subject: [geeks] [jacobbartlet@msn.com: Re: VAX Floating Point Systems Array Processor, AP 120B] Message-ID: <20021007032614.GS16101@mrbill.net> John is in MD, 30 miles from D.C. Someone please rescue this. 8-) Please contact him directly. Bill ----- Forwarded message from JOHN BATLUCK ----- From: "JOHN BATLUCK" To: Subject: Re: VAX Floating Point Systems Array Processor, AP 120B Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:02:42 -0400 Bill, In my garage I have an FPS AP 120B designed to interface with the VAX supermini for vector processing. I acquired it at GSA auction many years ago, where it landed after use at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center. It carries a model designation, AP 180V, identifying it as a VAX peripheral. The single cabinet, painted to look like a VAX peripheral, is about 24" wide, 30" deep and 60" high, and includes both power supply and processor. It weighs several hundred pounds. Some documentation is also available. I can no longer keep it, and am looking to find a new home whose owner will handle the shipping cost. This machine was made in Beaverton, Oregon in the early 80,s by Floating Point Systems. I don't have any interest in messing with it, but am reluctant to see it scrapped. Do you know anyone who may be interested in acquiring this unit? Regards, John Batluck ----- End forwarded message ----- -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Oct 6 22:49:34 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 23:49:34 -0400 Subject: [geeks] [jacobbartlet@msn.com: Re: VAX Floating Point Systems Array Processor, AP 120B] In-Reply-To: <20021007032614.GS16101@mrbill.net> Message-ID: Holy Cow...I've only been looking for one of those for almost ten years. I thought they were all gone! -Dave On Sunday, October 6, 2002, at 11:26 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: > John is in MD, 30 miles from D.C. Someone please rescue this. 8-) > > Please contact him directly. > > Bill > > ----- Forwarded message from JOHN BATLUCK ----- > > From: "JOHN BATLUCK" > To: > Subject: Re: VAX Floating Point Systems Array Processor, AP 120B > Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:02:42 -0400 > > Bill, > In my garage I have an FPS AP 120B designed to interface with the VAX > supermini for vector processing. I acquired it at GSA auction many > years > ago, where it landed after use at the NASA Goddard Space Flight > Center. It > carries a model designation, AP 180V, identifying it as a VAX > peripheral. > The single cabinet, painted to look like a VAX peripheral, is about > 24" wide, > 30" deep and 60" high, and includes both power supply and processor. > It > weighs several hundred pounds. Some documentation is also available. > > I can no longer keep it, and am looking to find a new home whose owner > will > handle the shipping cost. This machine was made in Beaverton, Oregon > in the > early 80,s by Floating Point Systems. I don't have any interest in > messing > with it, but am reluctant to see it scrapped. > > Do you know anyone who may be interested in acquiring this unit? > > Regards, > > John Batluck > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > bill bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > austin, texas > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Oct 7 00:16:49 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:16:49 -0500 Subject: [rescue] Re: [geeks] [jacobbartlet@msn.com: Re: VAX Floating Point Systems Array Processor, AP 120B] In-Reply-To: References: <20021007032614.GS16101@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20021007051649.GF27697@mrbill.net> On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 11:49:34PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > Holy Cow...I've only been looking for one of those for almost ten > years. I thought they were all gone! Who's yer daddy. 8-) Bill > On Sunday, October 6, 2002, at 11:26 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: > >John is in MD, 30 miles from D.C. Someone please rescue this. 8-) > >Please contact him directly. > > > >In my garage I have an FPS AP 120B designed to interface with the VAX > >supermini for vector processing. -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From mturner at whro.org Mon Oct 7 10:03:41 2002 From: mturner at whro.org (Michael A. Turner) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 11:03:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Mensa Message-ID: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> Oct. 19th is Mensa's day of testing. I am thinking of going and taking a swing at this test just to see how I do. Has anyone else on the list taken the test? Are their any members of mensa here? I am curious if it is worth my time to join, do they do anything and is it any fun? Michael A. Turner Systems Engineer WHRO michael.turner at whro.org http://www.whro.org From geeks at sunhelp.org Mon Oct 7 10:46:13 2002 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 08:46:13 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Scanners -- the radio kind Message-ID: ~ On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 05:04:37AM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: ~ > I have always wanted a scanner, but never actually got ~ around to buying ~ > one. ~ > Does anyone have any recommendations? I don't really know much about ~ > them, but I would like one that doesn't have any blocked ~ frequencies ~ > (if they do that). ~ > Anyone have any suggestions on where to read more? ~ ~ Radio Shack Pro-2006. ~ ~ I'm still kicking myself for selling my highly-modded one two ~ years ago. Ditto, but I still have mine :) And yes, there are issues of blocked recievers in Canada, esp. since your market gets American distribution more often than not. The 2006 rocks. I have heard all kinda things on it, incl. a certain Presidential Candidate discussing questionable finances over an AirPhone. I guess he didn't get the financing since he went on to promote Viagra!! 2006 dude, trust us. Unless you can afford the $1K+ costs of some of the high end Icom stuff. From kris at catonic.net Mon Oct 7 11:04:50 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:04:50 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Mensa In-Reply-To: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Michael A. Turner wrote: > Are their any members of mensa here? No. We can tie our own shoes. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Oct 7 11:19:04 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:19:04 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Mensa In-Reply-To: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> Message-ID: <7F9BAC1F-DA10-11D6-9477-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Monday, October 7, 2002, at 11:03 AM, Michael A. Turner wrote: > Oct. 19th is Mensa's day of testing. I am thinking of going and > taking a swing at this test just to see how I do. Has anyone else on > the > list taken the test? Are their any members of mensa here? I am curious > if it > is worth my time to join, do they do anything and is it any fun? I've always considered them to be a bunch of people who are far too impressed with themselves, and can't find anything better to do with their brainpower. Personally, I'm probably not smart enough to join, and I have PLENTY to do with my brainpower (don't you?)...so I don't bother. And besides...what if you take their test and don't do well? Will it cause self-confidence issues? It sure would for me. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From mturner at whro.org Mon Oct 7 11:20:30 2002 From: mturner at whro.org (Michael A. Turner) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:20:30 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Mensa Message-ID: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA762@terra.whro.org> > On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Michael A. Turner wrote: > > Are their any members of mensa here? > > No. > > We can tie our own shoes. > Well I can too... Of course that depends on the shoe hardware being used and what revision number the laces are on... > -- > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: > 'KrisBSD' Michael A. Turner Systems Engineer WHRO michael.turner at whro.org http://www.whro.org From wa2egp at att.net Mon Oct 7 12:25:08 2002 From: wa2egp at att.net (wa2egp at att.net) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 17:25:08 +0000 Subject: [geeks] the world's most expensive case mod Message-ID: <20021007172503.EHUE12219.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc17> I can imagine pulling up those pictures in my classroom..."Yo....Where'd ya get them wheels!" The fledgling geeks would also be impressed. Bob > http://www.rm-r.net/~bri/casemod/ > > The site has been slashdotted so you may want to sit on this one for a > day or two before trying it. But this has to be the coolest use of > auxiliary case lighting that I've ever seen. > > Chris Hedemark > Professional Computer Consulting & Videography > Hillsborough, NC > http://yonderway.com > > "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." -Steve Wright > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From kurt at k-huhn.com Mon Oct 7 12:38:42 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 13:38:42 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Mensa In-Reply-To: <7F9BAC1F-DA10-11D6-9477-000393970B96@neurotica.com> References: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> <7F9BAC1F-DA10-11D6-9477-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20021007133842.7ea99835.kurt@k-huhn.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > > I've always considered them to be a bunch of people who are far too > impressed with themselves, and can't find anything better to do with > their brainpower. > Amen. I'd really rather be known for what I *did* rather than what some test says I might be *capable* of doing. I have no interest in being a Mensa member - that type of elitism breeds contempt... -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From kris at catonic.net Mon Oct 7 12:52:08 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:52:08 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] Mensa In-Reply-To: <20021007133842.7ea99835.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Amen. I'd really rather be known for what I *did* rather than what some > test says I might be *capable* of doing. I have no interest in being a > Mensa member - that type of elitism breeds contempt... And eventually insurrection, as history has proven. :-) -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From dave at cca.org Mon Oct 7 11:12:18 2002 From: dave at cca.org (dave at cca.org) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 12:12:18 EDT Subject: [geeks] Mensa References: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> Message-ID: <02401121217.dave.17012@cca.org> mturner at whro.org writes: > Oct. 19th is Mensa's day of testing. I am thinking of going and >taking a swing at this test just to see how I do. Has anyone else on the >list taken the test? Are their any members of mensa here? I am curious if it >is worth my time to join, do they do anything and is it any fun? I joined one year out of curiosity, didn't bother renewing the next year. You can get in on SAT scores, so if you're curious, just check if you passed those test requirements. (I don't remember what the numbers were.) ------ David Fischer ------- dave at cca.org ------- http://www.cca.org ------ ------------------------ Drink Your Ovaltine! ----------------------------- From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Oct 7 13:22:39 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 13:22:39 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Mensa In-Reply-To: <02401121217.dave.17012@cca.org> References: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> <02401121217.dave.17012@cca.org> Message-ID: <20021007182239.GY27697@mrbill.net> On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 12:12:18PM -0400, dave at cca.org wrote: > I joined one year out of curiosity, didn't bother renewing > the next year. I remember their ads in _Omni_. There was a magazine I hated to see fold. http://www.omnimag.com Kathy Guccione, the publisher/editor, passed away in '97, and the magazine basically went with her. They kept the web site up, though. mmm. many hours reading "The Omni Collection of Science Fiction" in my youth. Good stuff. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From nimitz at speakeasy.net Mon Oct 7 15:16:29 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 14:16:29 -0600 Subject: [geeks] Ahhh! Bandwidth! *contented sigh* Message-ID: <3DA1EB9D.9080404@speakeasy.net> It's working! It may be bridged 608/128 ADSL but it's working! Now I just need to load up the OpendBSD Sparc box for firewall/NAT and I'll be good to go. (I'm currently taking my OS in my hands here - I'm surfing bare-wire, primary-IP to the 'net. Still I couldn't wait to try it out!) I'm a happy camper! ;-) Now to get a VPN set up between my house and my neigbors and leech mp3s off of his server. *grin* Mike Hebel From swallbridge at franticfilms.com Mon Oct 7 16:30:54 2002 From: swallbridge at franticfilms.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 16:30:54 -0500 Subject: [geeks] X server for Windows References: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> <02401121217.dave.17012@cca.org> <20021007182239.GY27697@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3DA1FD0E.9020508@franticfilms.com> Someone mentioned a free X server for Windows a little while back. Anyone remember what it was called (or have a link)? The list search function is down right now. On the good news side, I moved my main machine at home from Win2K to Gentoo Linux last week. So far I really like it. thanks shawn From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Mon Oct 7 16:32:48 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:32:48 -0400 Subject: [geeks] X server for Windows In-Reply-To: <3DA1FD0E.9020508@franticfilms.com> References: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> <02401121217.dave.17012@cca.org> <20021007182239.GY27697@mrbill.net> <3DA1FD0E.9020508@franticfilms.com> Message-ID: <20021007213248.GA10579@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 04:30:54PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > Someone mentioned a free X server for Windows a little while back. > Anyone remember what it was called (or have a link)? The list search > function is down right now. There was MI/X, but I heard a report that it was no longer free. Fonts always caused me pain on this one. There is also Xfree/cygwin. It is reported to be sluggish. Never tried it. -- Joshua D. Boyd From swallbridge at franticfilms.com Mon Oct 7 16:36:45 2002 From: swallbridge at franticfilms.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 16:36:45 -0500 Subject: [geeks] X server for Windows References: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> <02401121217.dave.17012@cca.org> <20021007182239.GY27697@mrbill.net> <3DA1FD0E.9020508@franticfilms.com> <20021007213248.GA10579@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <3DA1FE6D.3070301@franticfilms.com> Joshua D Boyd wrote: >On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 04:30:54PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > > >>Someone mentioned a free X server for Windows a little while back. >>Anyone remember what it was called (or have a link)? The list search >>function is down right now. >> >> > >There was MI/X, but I heard a report that it was no longer free. Fonts >always caused me pain on this one. > >There is also Xfree/cygwin. It is reported to be sluggish. Never tried >it. > > > OK, I think I am messed up again. I need something that will display a window from my home machine (over an ssh tunnel) to my machine at work. So is that the X client? shawn From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Mon Oct 7 16:39:09 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:39:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] X server for Windows In-Reply-To: <3DA1FE6D.3070301@franticfilms.com> References: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> <02401121217.dave.17012@cca.org> <20021007182239.GY27697@mrbill.net> <3DA1FD0E.9020508@franticfilms.com> <20021007213248.GA10579@cs.millersville.edu> <3DA1FE6D.3070301@franticfilms.com> Message-ID: <20021007213909.GA10625@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 04:36:45PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > >There was MI/X, but I heard a report that it was no longer free. Fonts > >always caused me pain on this one. > > > >There is also Xfree/cygwin. It is reported to be sluggish. Never tried > >it. > > > OK, I think I am messed up again. I need something that will display a > window from my home machine (over an ssh tunnel) to my machine at work. > So is that the X client? The home machine being gentoo linux, and the work machine being windows 2k? Nope. You need an xserver (programs like the gimp, mozilla, etc, are the X Clients), like Xfree/cygwin or MI/X (or eXeed for money). -- Joshua D. Boyd From vance at neurotica.com Mon Oct 7 16:40:29 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] X server for Windows In-Reply-To: <3DA1FE6D.3070301@franticfilms.com> Message-ID: As long as you have all the required libraries to run your X software on your local computer, and the remote computer has a working X server, you can run the program on your local computer and display on the remote one. The program you are running is the X client, and the X server running on the remote machine is the X server. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > >On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 04:30:54PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > > > > > >>Someone mentioned a free X server for Windows a little while back. > >>Anyone remember what it was called (or have a link)? The list search > >>function is down right now. > >> > >> > > > >There was MI/X, but I heard a report that it was no longer free. Fonts > >always caused me pain on this one. > > > >There is also Xfree/cygwin. It is reported to be sluggish. Never tried > >it. > > > > > > > OK, I think I am messed up again. I need something that will display a > window from my home machine (over an ssh tunnel) to my machine at work. > So is that the X client? > > shawn > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Mon Oct 7 16:43:18 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:43:18 -0400 Subject: [geeks] X server for Windows In-Reply-To: <20021007213909.GA10625@cs.millersville.edu> References: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> <02401121217.dave.17012@cca.org> <20021007182239.GY27697@mrbill.net> <3DA1FD0E.9020508@franticfilms.com> <20021007213248.GA10579@cs.millersville.edu> <3DA1FE6D.3070301@franticfilms.com> <20021007213909.GA10625@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021007214317.GA10925@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 05:39:09PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > The home machine being gentoo linux, and the work machine being windows > 2k? Nope. You need an xserver (programs like the gimp, mozilla, etc, > are the X Clients), like Xfree/cygwin or MI/X (or eXeed for money). Note: On your work windows 2k machine, you are going to need an SSH client that knows how to tunnel things like X11. I don't think PuTTY can do it. -- Joshua D. Boyd From vance at neurotica.com Mon Oct 7 16:53:34 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] X server for Windows In-Reply-To: <20021007214317.GA10925@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: I've done this before. I used OpenSSH and Cygwin. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 05:39:09PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > > The home machine being gentoo linux, and the work machine being windows > > 2k? Nope. You need an xserver (programs like the gimp, mozilla, etc, > > are the X Clients), like Xfree/cygwin or MI/X (or eXeed for money). > > Note: On your work windows 2k machine, you are going to need an SSH > client that knows how to tunnel things like X11. I don't think PuTTY > can do it. > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From kurt at k-huhn.com Mon Oct 7 17:21:02 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:21:02 -0400 Subject: [geeks] X server for Windows In-Reply-To: <20021007214317.GA10925@cs.millersville.edu> References: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> <02401121217.dave.17012@cca.org> <20021007182239.GY27697@mrbill.net> <3DA1FD0E.9020508@franticfilms.com> <20021007213248.GA10579@cs.millersville.edu> <3DA1FE6D.3070301@franticfilms.com> <20021007213909.GA10625@cs.millersville.edu> <20021007214317.GA10925@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021007182102.2df2589a.kurt@k-huhn.com> Joshua D Boyd wrote: > Note: On your work windows 2k machine, you are going to need an SSH > client that knows how to tunnel things like X11. I don't think PuTTY > can do it. > Sure it can. I set up the Client Services woman with Putty the other day so that she can get X displays over SSH (eXceed was already installed). -- Kurt "What me look like, ricecake monster? kurt at k-huhn.com Me Cookie Monster! Me need COOKIE!" --Cookie Monster From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Mon Oct 7 17:24:04 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:24:04 -0400 Subject: [geeks] X server for Windows In-Reply-To: <20021007182102.2df2589a.kurt@k-huhn.com> References: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> <02401121217.dave.17012@cca.org> <20021007182239.GY27697@mrbill.net> <3DA1FD0E.9020508@franticfilms.com> <20021007213248.GA10579@cs.millersville.edu> <3DA1FE6D.3070301@franticfilms.com> <20021007213909.GA10625@cs.millersville.edu> <20021007214317.GA10925@cs.millersville.edu> <20021007182102.2df2589a.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <20021007222404.GA12203@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 06:21:02PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Sure it can. I set up the Client Services woman with Putty the other > day so that she can get X displays over SSH (eXceed was already > installed). I'm impressed. -- Joshua D. Boyd From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 7 22:06:55 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 20:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Mensa In-Reply-To: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA761@terra.whro.org> Message-ID: <20021008030655.53464.qmail@web9301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Michael A. Turner" wrote: > Oct. 19th is Mensa's day of testing. I am thinking of going and > taking a swing at this test just to see how I do. Has anyone else > on the list taken the test? Are their any members of mensa here? > I am curious if it is worth my time to join, do they do anything > and is it any fun? Mensa is a club where the members all share exactly *one* attribute - ask yourself, how important is that one attribute to you? Do you define yourself by that attribute? Are friends impressed by this one attribute of yours? Do you do any activities that focus on only this one attribute? As a tall fellow (6' 4"), I was once single, and went to a "Moonrakers" Single club function, and it was a huge let down - one of the few things that make me stood out was my height, and being surrounded by so many others who *shared* my "stature" was odd, and unsuccessful. Ultimately, I met my future wife the old fashined way - at a high school homecoming party at a local bar about 8 yrs after my graduation (BTW, my wife is 5' 2",a nd just perfect! ;^) Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Tue Oct 8 11:30:37 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:30:37 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Star wars episode 3: The Lego trailer Message-ID: <20021008163037.GA7987@cs.millersville.edu> http://users.eastlink.ca/%7Ejaysilver/MakingofROTE.html I thought this was so cool. I wish I had time for doing projects like this. -- Joshua D. Boyd From wa2egp at att.net Tue Oct 8 12:34:44 2002 From: wa2egp at att.net (wa2egp at att.net) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 17:34:44 +0000 Subject: [geeks] Mensa Message-ID: <20021008173445.LTGN20527.mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc19> > I remember their ads in _Omni_. There was a magazine I hated to > see fold. > Ah yes......the magazine of science and science fiction. Too bad they couldn't distinguish between the two. I remember a dozen "unexplained" UFO pictures they printed. In five minutes I "explained" ten of them. Wasn't too impressed after that. Bob From geeks at sunhelp.org Tue Oct 8 13:00:57 2002 From: geeks at sunhelp.org (geeks at sunhelp.org) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:00:57 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Mensa Message-ID: ~ -----Original Message----- ~ From: wa2egp at att.net [mailto:wa2egp at att.net] ~ Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 1:35 PM ~ To: geeks at sunhelp.org ~ Subject: Re: [geeks] Mensa ~ ~ ~ > I remember their ads in _Omni_. There was a magazine I hated to ~ > see fold. ~ > ~ Ah yes......the magazine of science and science fiction. Too bad ~ they couldn't distinguish between the two. I remember a dozen ~ "unexplained" UFO pictures they printed. In five minutes I ~ "explained" ~ ten of them. Wasn't too impressed after that. Bob I was suspicious of them before reading one issue. It was published by a pornography family. From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Tue Oct 8 14:29:29 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:29:29 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Palm Zire Message-ID: <20021008192929.GB14671@cs.millersville.edu> http://www.palm.com/products/handhelds/zire/details.html Nice looking. Why can't they get over the idea of only 2 megs at the low end and give everyone a minimum of 4? -- Joshua D. Boyd From james at jdfogg.com Tue Oct 8 16:00:46 2002 From: james at jdfogg.com (James) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 17:00:46 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I have moved my subscription Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021008170029.009e6ec0@mail.jdfogg.com> I have moved my subscription off of my companies email account. This is in preparation for a future that is uncertain AND to kick Outlook the freak out of my life. Former identity: James Fogg / jfogg at vicinity.com From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 8 17:48:45 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] One of my favorite movie quotes Message-ID: "Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volgar Sindrore the Traveler has come. Choose and perish." I love that quote. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 8 17:57:09 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] DEC SDI Drives Message-ID: Does anyone have any DEC RA7X drives they would be willing to let go real cheap? Size doesn't really matter all that much. Peace... Sridhar From sjh at waroffice.net Tue Oct 8 18:00:55 2002 From: sjh at waroffice.net (Steven Hill) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:00:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] One of my favorite movie quotes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > "Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volgar Sindrore the Traveler > has come. Choose and perish." Nice. "Do you expect me to talk" "No, Mr Bond, I expect you to die!" I think that's my favourite... My many others are alluded to in my sig. -- Steven Hill This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. From crisco_kid at shaw.ca Tue Oct 8 18:33:46 2002 From: crisco_kid at shaw.ca (Dave Kimmel) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:33:46 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [geeks] Palm Zire In-Reply-To: <20021008192929.GB14671@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021008172832.L4770-100000@rapier.gsm> On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > http://www.palm.com/products/handhelds/zire/details.html > > Nice looking. Why can't they get over the idea of only 2 megs at the > low end and give everyone a minimum of 4? For the price, there doesn't seem to be too much to complain about, except for the lack of a backlight. The idea is probably to get people hooked with a cheap Palm, then they buy something more expensive. I went from a PalmPilot Professional (1MB of RAM) to a Palm Vx, so I know that the strategy works. ;-) -- Dave Kimmel crisco_kid at shaw.ca From dittman at dittman.net Tue Oct 8 19:12:38 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:12:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] DEC SDI Drives In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at Oct 08, 2002 06:57:09 PM Message-ID: <200210090012.g990CcR02344@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Does anyone have any DEC RA7X drives they would be willing to let go real > cheap? Size doesn't really matter all that much. Are you willing to travel to get them? -- Eric Dittman dittman at dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 8 19:44:40 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:44:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] DEC SDI Drives In-Reply-To: <200210090012.g990CcR02344@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: No, but I'm willing to pay shipping if it's not *too* bad. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Does anyone have any DEC RA7X drives they would be willing to let go real > > cheap? Size doesn't really matter all that much. > > Are you willing to travel to get them? > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman at dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From swallbridge at franticfilms.com Tue Oct 8 22:51:06 2002 From: swallbridge at franticfilms.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 22:51:06 -0500 Subject: [geeks] R12k Octanes Message-ID: <3DA3A7AA.7070701@franticfilms.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2058387290 Dutch auction for 40. All R12k 300's with 512MB and 9GB drives. Right now it's at $560. shawn From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 8 23:09:06 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:09:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] R12k Octanes In-Reply-To: <3DA3A7AA.7070701@franticfilms.com> Message-ID: Wow! Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2058387290 > > Dutch auction for 40. All R12k 300's with 512MB and 9GB drives. Right > now it's at $560. > > shawn > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From brt at g.haggve.se Wed Oct 9 01:58:05 2002 From: brt at g.haggve.se (Bjorn Ramqvist) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:58:05 +0200 Subject: [geeks] DEC SDI Drives References: Message-ID: <3DA3D37D.84EA1863@g.haggve.se> vance at neurotica.com wrote: > > Does anyone have any DEC RA7X drives they would be willing to let go real > cheap? Size doesn't really matter all that much. Omg. SDI-drives. It was a looong time ago I heard about those. Man, I love'em! Started using RM80 on 11/730, later RA81 and RA82 on 11/750 and 780. There ain't words enough to describe their coolness-factor, with that RS-232 port. Heh... When RA90/91s came around, things were going fast. When RA7x drives came, they were seriously fast. Too bad I don't have any drives left for you. :-( /Bjorn From d.kindred at telesciences.com Wed Oct 9 09:13:14 2002 From: d.kindred at telesciences.com (David L Kindred (Dave)) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:13:14 -0400 Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? Message-ID: <15780.14714.88185.939015@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I know most of you guys hate PCs, so for the spirit of the question substitute your favorite desktop :) I just a news report that Home Depot is buying 40,000 PCs from HP. It is probably the lack of sufficient coffee yet this morning, but I'm trying to imagine just how large a pile of 40,000 PCs would be if they were ever in the same place at once? Anyone here ever have to deal with numbers like that? To me it's just mind boggling to even consider. -- David L. Kindred Unix Systems & Network Administrator Telesciences, Inc. Support: 2000 Midlantic Drive, Suite 410, Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054 Tel: +1.856.866.1000 ext. 4184 Fax: +1.856.866.0185 --- From rlonstein at pobox.com Wed Oct 9 13:10:02 2002 From: rlonstein at pobox.com (R. Lonstein) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:10:02 -0400 Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: <15780.14714.88185.939015@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <15780.14714.88185.939015@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20021009181002.GA27487@mail.lonsteins.com> On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 10:13:14AM -0400, David L Kindred (Dave) wrote: [snip] > trying to imagine just how large a pile of 40,000 PCs would be if they > were ever in the same place at once? [snip] According to Enlight, they can ship 800 cases (each approx. 17"w X 7"h X 19"d) in a 40 foot container. I'm guessing that is one of those big steel shipping containers like you see at the port being unloaded by crane. That works out, conveniently, to 50 of these. Imagine 50 tractor trailers (not including the cab) and you have an idea of the size. - Ross From nick at snowman.net Wed Oct 9 14:09:57 2002 From: nick at snowman.net (nick at snowman.net) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:09:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: <20021009181002.GA27487@mail.lonsteins.com> Message-ID: It really depends on how tightly you pack em. I've unloaded 3600 midtower cases from a 53" 18 wheeler. (Boss was an idiot, decided he'd "save Money" by haveing the cases shipped unpalleted, which saved shipping costs, and cost him ~8hrs of everyone who worked there to unload). Nick On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, R. Lonstein wrote: > On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 10:13:14AM -0400, David L Kindred (Dave) wrote: > [snip] > > trying to imagine just how large a pile of 40,000 PCs would be if they > > were ever in the same place at once? > [snip] > > According to Enlight, they can ship 800 cases (each approx. 17"w X 7"h > X 19"d) in a 40 foot container. I'm guessing that is one of those big > steel shipping containers like you see at the port being unloaded by > crane. That works out, conveniently, to 50 of these. Imagine 50 > tractor trailers (not including the cab) and you have an idea of the > size. > > - Ross > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From david at cantrell.org.uk Wed Oct 9 14:17:32 2002 From: david at cantrell.org.uk (David Cantrell) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:17:32 +0100 Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: <20021009181002.GA27487@mail.lonsteins.com>; from rlonstein@pobox.com on Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 02:10:02PM -0400 References: <15780.14714.88185.939015@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20021009181002.GA27487@mail.lonsteins.com> Message-ID: <20021009201731.E867@barnyard.co.uk> On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 02:10:02PM -0400, R. Lonstein wrote: > On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 10:13:14AM -0400, David L Kindred (Dave) wrote: > > trying to imagine just how large a pile of 40,000 PCs would be if they > > were ever in the same place at once? > According to Enlight, they can ship 800 cases (each approx. 17"w X 7"h > X 19"d) in a 40 foot container. I'm guessing that is one of those big > steel shipping containers like you see at the port being unloaded by > crane. That works out, conveniently, to 50 of these. Imagine 50 > tractor trailers (not including the cab) and you have an idea of the > size. Now add the monitors :-) -- David Cantrell | Reprobate | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david engineer: n. one who, regardless of how much effort he puts in to a job, will never satisfy either the suits or the scientists From vance at neurotica.com Wed Oct 9 17:10:30 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:10:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] LOL Message-ID: http://www.brtnet.org/santa.php Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Oct 9 17:37:52 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:37:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] LOL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 06:10 PM, vance at neurotica.com wrote: > http://www.brtnet.org/santa.php What I'd like to know is why that's a PHP script and not a chunk of static HTML. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From swallbridge at franticfilms.com Wed Oct 9 17:47:36 2002 From: swallbridge at franticfilms.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 17:47:36 -0500 Subject: [geeks] LOL References: Message-ID: <3DA4B208.2050403@franticfilms.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 06:10 PM, vance at neurotica.com wrote: > >> http://www.brtnet.org/santa.php > > > What I'd like to know is why that's a PHP script and not a chunk of > static HTML. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks Wow, I thought the exact same thing. Nothing like wasting CPU cycles for nothing (well, I hope nothing). shawn From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 9 20:48:08 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: <20021009181002.GA27487@mail.lonsteins.com> Message-ID: <20021010014808.48941.qmail@web9301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "R. Lonstein" wrote: > On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 10:13:14AM -0400, David L Kindred (Dave) > wrote: > [snip] > > trying to imagine just how large a pile of 40,000 PCs would be if > > they were ever in the same place at once? > [snip] > > According to Enlight, they can ship 800 cases (each approx. 17"w X > 7"h > X 19"d) in a 40 foot container. I'm guessing that is one of those big > steel shipping containers like you see at the port being unloaded by > crane. That works out, conveniently, to 50 of these. Imagine 50 > tractor trailers (not including the cab) and you have an idea of the > size. As a point of reference, the rolling stones are using 53 tractor trailers for their tour. ;^) Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 From rlonstein at pobox.com Wed Oct 9 21:00:17 2002 From: rlonstein at pobox.com (R. Lonstein) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:00:17 -0400 Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: References: <20021009181002.GA27487@mail.lonsteins.com> Message-ID: <20021010020017.GA30101@mail.lonsteins.com> On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 03:09:57PM -0400, nick at snowman.net wrote: > It really depends on how tightly you pack em. I've unloaded 3600 midtower > cases from a 53" 18 wheeler. (Boss was an idiot, decided he'd "save > Money" by haveing the cases shipped unpalleted, which saved shipping > costs, and cost him ~8hrs of everyone who worked there to unload). > Nick What a waste of time. What did you need 3600 cases for? As for Enlight, I'm guessing that since the cases are destined for retail, they are individually packed and boxed then palleted. They probably don't stack pallets, either. So they are not getting maximum density. Still a large volume. - Ross From rlonstein at pobox.com Wed Oct 9 21:08:29 2002 From: rlonstein at pobox.com (R. Lonstein) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:08:29 -0400 Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: <20021010014808.48941.qmail@web9301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021009181002.GA27487@mail.lonsteins.com> <20021010014808.48941.qmail@web9301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021010020829.GB30101@mail.lonsteins.com> On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 06:48:08PM -0700, Lionel Peterson wrote: [snip] > As a point of reference, the rolling stones are using 53 tractor > trailers for their tour. ;^) [snip] Damn. That's a lot of gear for a bar band. - Ross From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 9 21:09:48 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: <20021010020829.GB30101@mail.lonsteins.com> Message-ID: <20021010020948.96868.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com> --- "R. Lonstein" wrote: > On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 06:48:08PM -0700, Lionel Peterson wrote: > [snip] > > As a point of reference, the rolling stones are using 53 tractor > > trailers for their tour. ;^) > [snip] > > Damn. That's a lot of gear for a bar band. Their setup takes so long, they perform on one while the next is being set up in the next city - this is actually quite common, but not at this scale... Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Oct 9 21:19:37 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:19:37 -0400 Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: <20021010014808.48941.qmail@web9301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 09:48 PM, Lionel Peterson wrote: > As a point of reference, the rolling stones are using 53 tractor > trailers for their tour. ;^) With all that stuff, one might be tempted to think they'd be able to produce some decent music...but nooooo. I guess it's the same thing with Microsoft and their legions of programmers. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Wed Oct 9 21:30:19 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:30:19 -0400 Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: References: <20021010014808.48941.qmail@web9301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021010023019.GA17954@cs.millersville.edu> On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 10:19:37PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 09:48 PM, Lionel Peterson wrote: > >As a point of reference, the rolling stones are using 53 tractor > >trailers for their tour. ;^) > > With all that stuff, one might be tempted to think they'd be able to > produce some decent music...but nooooo. I guess it's the same thing > with Microsoft and their legions of programmers. I think that good music needs limitations. And the Rolling Stones have none. I bet good software needs tight limitations also. -- Joshua D. Boyd From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 9 21:41:18 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] One of my favorite movie quotes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021010024118.64053.qmail@web9306.mail.yahoo.com> --- vance at neurotica.com wrote: > "Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volgar Sindrore the > Traveler > has come. Choose and perish." > > I love that quote. "Sta-puft" (It took me a moment to remember what was "choosen"... ;^) Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 From vance at neurotica.com Wed Oct 9 22:31:02 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] LOL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Probably stupidity of some kind. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 06:10 PM, vance at neurotica.com wrote: > > http://www.brtnet.org/santa.php > > What I'd like to know is why that's a PHP script and not a chunk of > static HTML. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From dittman at dittman.net Wed Oct 9 22:29:42 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:29:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: from "Dave McGuire" at Oct 09, 2002 10:19:37 PM Message-ID: <200210100329.g9A3Tgs06361@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > As a point of reference, the rolling stones are using 53 tractor > > trailers for their tour. ;^) > > With all that stuff, one might be tempted to think they'd be able to > produce some decent music...but nooooo. I guess it's the same thing > with Microsoft and their legions of programmers. There's some Stones songs that I like. I'm pretty eclectic, though. The only types of I don't really like are both kinds of music: Country & Western. (Name the movie I was paraphrasing). -- Eric Dittman dittman at dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 9 22:41:36 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Anyone? Microcars? Message-ID: <20021010034136.69851.qmail@web9306.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, Anyone here get sucked into this - I'm tempted... http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,604706,00.asp Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 From shawn at synack-hosting.com Thu Oct 10 01:40:33 2002 From: shawn at synack-hosting.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: 10 Oct 2002 01:40:33 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Anyone? Microcars? In-Reply-To: <20021010034136.69851.qmail@web9306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021010034136.69851.qmail@web9306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1034232034.22563.11.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> Yup, I have a Celica with a 3.0 engine upgrade on the way. Someone at work bought one, then brought it to work. That day he started taking orders. I think we hit 14 cars by the end of the day. They are lots of fun. shawn On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 22:41, Lionel Peterson wrote: > Hello, > > Anyone here get sucked into this - I'm tempted... > > http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,604706,00.asp > > Lionel > > ===== > Lionel > > "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten > programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" > Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Wed Oct 9 22:49:16 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:49:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Anyone? Microcars? In-Reply-To: <1034232034.22563.11.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> References: <20021010034136.69851.qmail@web9306.mail.yahoo.com> <1034232034.22563.11.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> Message-ID: <20021010034916.GA22392@cs.millersville.edu> On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 01:40:33AM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > Yup, I have a Celica with a 3.0 engine upgrade on the way. Someone at > work bought one, then brought it to work. That day he started taking > orders. I think we hit 14 cars by the end of the day. > > They are lots of fun. Have you guys built an office race track yet? -- Joshua D. Boyd From shawn at synack-hosting.com Thu Oct 10 01:47:05 2002 From: shawn at synack-hosting.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: 10 Oct 2002 01:47:05 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Anyone? Microcars? In-Reply-To: <20021010034916.GA22392@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20021010034136.69851.qmail@web9306.mail.yahoo.com> <1034232034.22563.11.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> <20021010034916.GA22392@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <1034232425.22563.13.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 22:49, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 01:40:33AM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > > Yup, I have a Celica with a 3.0 engine upgrade on the way. Someone at > > work bought one, then brought it to work. That day he started taking > > orders. I think we hit 14 cars by the end of the day. > > > > They are lots of fun. > > Have you guys built an office race track yet? > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks Not yet. Only one person has one yet, the rest of us are waiting for ours. I expect it to be insane when they show up. shawn From dave at cca.org Thu Oct 10 00:04:30 2002 From: dave at cca.org (dave at cca.org) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:04:30 EDT Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? Message-ID: <02404010430.dave.26861@cca.org> dittman at dittman.net writes: >> > As a point of reference, the rolling stones are using 53 tractor >> > trailers for their tour. ;^) >> >> With all that stuff, one might be tempted to think they'd be able to >> produce some decent music...but nooooo. I guess it's the same thing >> with Microsoft and their legions of programmers. >There's some Stones songs that I like. I'm pretty eclectic, >though. The only types of I don't really like are both kinds >of music: Country & Western. What about Johnny Cash? I'm a firm believer that there's good music in every genre - it's just usually obscure and takes some digging. (Obviously Cash isn't obscure, he's one of those rarities that actually deserve their fame.) As for the Stones - I like a few of their early hits (in particular, "Gimmi Shelter") but overall they're no better than most bar bands. Luckily I like music that isn't very popular (comperably) so I can go see the best bands in the world for their genres at shows of a few hundred people, and they're really psyched when you go up after the show and tell them they were good... >(Name the movie I was paraphrasing). "No Ma'am, we're musicians." ------ David Fischer ------- dave at cca.org ------- http://www.cca.org ------ ------------------------ Drink Your Ovaltine! ----------------------------- From brt at g.haggve.se Thu Oct 10 00:16:54 2002 From: brt at g.haggve.se (Bjorn Ramqvist) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:16:54 +0200 Subject: [geeks] LOL References: Message-ID: <3DA50D46.F34C31D6@g.haggve.se> vance at neurotica.com wrote: > > http://www.brtnet.org/santa.php Hehehe... 1 kilosanta and 1 megasanta. :-) /Bjorn From me at dansikorski.com Thu Oct 10 00:13:20 2002 From: me at dansikorski.com (Dan Sikorski) Date: 10 Oct 2002 00:13:20 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Anyone? Microcars? In-Reply-To: <1034232425.22563.13.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> References: <20021010034136.69851.qmail@web9306.mail.yahoo.com> <1034232034.22563.11.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> <20021010034916.GA22392@cs.millersville.edu> <1034232425.22563.13.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> Message-ID: <1034226800.31604.30.camel@GeneralLee> On Thu, 2002-10-10 at 01:47, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > Not yet. Only one person has one yet, the rest of us are waiting for > ours. I expect it to be insane when they show up. So, from the looks of things, the microsizers are the way to go, is that what you've found? Anyone else here into RC cars? i've got an electric rc10 and a kyosho nitro road car. Don't play with the stuff all too much anymore, but man, a little 16" car goin' 30+mph is a lotta fun. -Dan Sikorski From dittman at dittman.net Thu Oct 10 01:36:58 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:36:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: from "dave@cca.org" at Oct 10, 2002 01:04:30 AM Message-ID: <200210100636.g9A6awD06753@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >> > As a point of reference, the rolling stones are using 53 tractor > >> > trailers for their tour. ;^) > >> > >> With all that stuff, one might be tempted to think they'd be able to > >> produce some decent music...but nooooo. I guess it's the same thing > >> with Microsoft and their legions of programmers. > > >There's some Stones songs that I like. I'm pretty eclectic, > >though. The only types of I don't really like are both kinds > >of music: Country & Western. > > What about Johnny Cash? I'm a firm believer that there's good > music in every genre - it's just usually obscure and takes some > digging. (Obviously Cash isn't obscure, he's one of those rarities > that actually deserve their fame.) Well, as with most things, there are exceptions, and Johnny Cash is an exception for me. I like some of his stuff. > >(Name the movie I was paraphrasing). > > "No Ma'am, we're musicians." :-) -- Eric Dittman dittman at dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From wstan at xs4all.nl Thu Oct 10 05:27:27 2002 From: wstan at xs4all.nl (William S.) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:27:27 +0200 Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: <02404010430.dave.26861@cca.org> References: <02404010430.dave.26861@cca.org> Message-ID: <20021010102727.GC38875@xs4all.nl> On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 01:04:30AM -0400, dave at cca.org wrote: > dittman at dittman.net writes: > > >There's some Stones songs that I like. I'm pretty eclectic, > >though. The only types of I don't really like are both kinds > >of music: Country & Western. > > What about Johnny Cash? I'm a firm believer that there's good > music in every genre - it's just usually obscure and takes some > digging. (Obviously Cash isn't obscure, he's one of those rarities > that actually deserve their fame.) I have a song I listen to by Woody Guthrie. Very simple recording. Just him, one instrument, no fancy stuff. Great song... "This land is you land.." -- Bill Amsterdam, NL From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 10 06:21:31 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 04:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: <02404010430.dave.26861@cca.org> Message-ID: <20021010112131.60720.qmail@web9307.mail.yahoo.com> --- dave at cca.org wrote: > What about Johnny Cash? Johnny Cash was "outted" by Spin magazine a long time ago (late 80's?) when he put out his greatest hits CD - the reviewer of that (then) hip magazine couldn't say enough good things about him. Nor can I. Heh - the most requested CD of mine at my office is a Tom Jones Greatest Hits CD... ;^) > As for the Stones - I like a few of their early hits (in particular, > "Gimmi Shelter") but overall they're no better than most bar bands. > Luckily I like music that isn't very popular (comperably) so I can > go see the best bands in the world for their genres at shows of a > few hundred people, and they're really psyched when you go up after > the show and tell them they were good... > > >(Name the movie I was paraphrasing). > > "No Ma'am, we're musicians." Blues Brothers? Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 10 06:26:23 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 04:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: <20021010112131.60720.qmail@web9307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021010112623.9391.qmail@web9306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lionel Peterson wrote: > --- dave at cca.org wrote: > > > What about Johnny Cash? > > Johnny Cash was "outted" by Spin magazine a long time ago (late > 80's?) when he put out his greatest hits CD - the reviewer of > that (then) hip magazine couldn't say enough good things about him. I meant "outed to a whole new generation"... Johnny Cash was Very Popular long before the late 80's ;^) Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 From kurt at k-huhn.com Thu Oct 10 07:55:13 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:55:13 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Anyone? Microcars? In-Reply-To: <20021010034136.69851.qmail@web9306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021010034136.69851.qmail@web9306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021010085513.3765ca02.kurt@k-huhn.com> Lionel Peterson wrote: > Anyone here get sucked into this - I'm tempted... > > http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,604706,00.asp > Not sucked in yet, but growing very tempted as I read more of the article... -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From dittman at dittman.net Thu Oct 10 08:30:05 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:30:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: from "Lionel Peterson" at Oct 10, 2002 04:21:31 AM Message-ID: <200210101330.g9ADU5K07691@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > >(Name the movie I was paraphrasing). > > > > "No Ma'am, we're musicians." > > Blues Brothers? Yes. -- Eric Dittman dittman at dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From mturner at whro.org Thu Oct 10 08:48:02 2002 From: mturner at whro.org (Michael A. Turner) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:48:02 -0400 Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? Message-ID: <86A04938D89DD511ACBF0008C7E9E5431DA765@terra.whro.org> > > > What about Johnny Cash? > > > > Johnny Cash was "outted" by Spin magazine a long time ago (late > > 80's?) when he put out his greatest hits CD - the reviewer of > > that (then) hip magazine couldn't say enough good things about him. > > I meant "outed to a whole new generation"... > > Johnny Cash was Very Popular long before the late 80's ;^) > > Lionel > > ===== > Lionel And outted in the first context has a whole different connotation than the second version. I read that and went "Really, well I would have never guessed." thought I was going to have to start filling my Johnny Cash next to REM and the B-52s all of a sudden. Michael A. Turner Systems Engineer WHRO michael.turner at whro.org http://www.whro.org From kris at catonic.net Thu Oct 10 10:21:08 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:21:08 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: <200210100329.g9A3Tgs06361@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > There's some Stones songs that I like. I'm pretty eclectic, > though. The only types of I don't really like are both kinds > of music: Country & Western. Ugh. Artifacts of the 80s I'd love to be able to forget -- that stupid movie wherein Dolly Parton makes Rambo into a Country singer. ugh. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From kris at catonic.net Thu Oct 10 10:23:25 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:23:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: <200210100636.g9A6awD06753@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > >(Name the movie I was paraphrasing). > > > > "No Ma'am, we're musicians." Why do I have the urge to buy a Dodge Diplomat, paint it black and white, and buy spray adhesive.... -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From dittman at dittman.net Thu Oct 10 13:46:23 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:46:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: from "Kris Kirby" at Oct 10, 2002 03:21:08 PM Message-ID: <200210101846.g9AIkNg08371@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > There's some Stones songs that I like. I'm pretty eclectic, > > though. The only types of I don't really like are both kinds > > of music: Country & Western. > > Ugh. Artifacts of the 80s I'd love to be able to forget -- that stupid > movie wherein Dolly Parton makes Rambo into a Country singer. ugh. Rhinestone. Does anyone remember the SNL with Stallone hosting where Norm MacDonald and Ana Gasteyer were in a car wreck and Stallone was trying to help? All Norm's character could do was talk about all the bad Stallone movies. "Stop... Stop..." "He's trying to say something." "Stop or My Mom Will Shoot sucked!" -- Eric Dittman dittman at dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From vance at neurotica.com Thu Oct 10 14:50:20 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Kris Kirby wrote: > > > >(Name the movie I was paraphrasing). > > > > > > "No Ma'am, we're musicians." > > Why do I have the urge to buy a Dodge Diplomat, paint it black and white, > and buy spray adhesive.... Do you also have the urge to eat dry, white toast with nothing to drink? Peace... Sridhar From schiller at agrijag.com Thu Oct 10 14:52:39 2002 From: schiller at agrijag.com (Michael Schiller) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:52:39 -0400 Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? References: Message-ID: <3DA5DA87.8E2DD3C8@agrijag.com> vance at neurotica.com wrote: > > On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Kris Kirby wrote: > > > > > >(Name the movie I was paraphrasing). > > > > > > > > "No Ma'am, we're musicians." > > > > Why do I have the urge to buy a Dodge Diplomat, paint it black and white, > > and buy spray adhesive.... > > Do you also have the urge to eat dry, white toast with nothing to drink? > Or perhaps 4 fried chickens and a coke? -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email:schiller at nospam.agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * * (o o) * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From kris at catonic.net Thu Oct 10 15:15:58 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:15:58 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 vance at neurotica.com wrote: > Do you also have the urge to eat dry, white toast with nothing to drink? Where do you think I picked up the habit? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From chris at yonderway.com Thu Oct 10 00:25:33 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:25:33 -0400 Subject: [geeks] [jacobbartlet@msn.com: Re: VAX Floating Point Systems Array Processor, AP 120B] In-Reply-To: <20021007032614.GS16101@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Sunday, October 6, 2002, at 11:26 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: > John is in MD, 30 miles from D.C. Someone please rescue this. 8-) Hmmm traveling to that part of the country these days could be hazardous to your health. I'm allergic to .223 bullets. Chris Hedemark Professional Computer Consulting & Videography Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." -Steve Wright From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Thu Oct 10 15:36:22 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:36:22 -0400 Subject: [geeks] [jacobbartlet@msn.com: Re: VAX Floating Point Systems Array Processor, AP 120B] In-Reply-To: References: <20021007032614.GS16101@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20021010203622.GA25029@cs.millersville.edu> On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 01:25:33AM -0400, Chris Hedemark wrote: > On Sunday, October 6, 2002, at 11:26 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: > > >John is in MD, 30 miles from D.C. Someone please rescue this. 8-) > > Hmmm traveling to that part of the country these days could be > hazardous to your health. > > I'm allergic to .223 bullets. I bet the chances of being killed in that area by that guy are less likely then you being killed in a car accident on the way home tonight. -- Joshua D. Boyd From chris at yonderway.com Thu Oct 10 15:52:06 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:52:06 -0400 Subject: [geeks] [jacobbartlet@msn.com: Re: VAX Floating Point Systems Array Processor, AP 120B] In-Reply-To: <20021010203622.GA25029@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <231DF619-DC92-11D6-AE53-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> On Thursday, October 10, 2002, at 04:36 PM, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > I bet the chances of being killed in that area by that guy are less > likely then you being killed in a car accident on the way home tonight. I'll take that bet. I haven't left the house all day. ;-) Chris Hedemark Professional Computer Consulting & Videography Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." -Steve Wright From gary at linuxforce.org Thu Oct 10 15:59:10 2002 From: gary at linuxforce.org (Gary Nichols) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:59:10 -0700 (MST) Subject: [geeks] WTB: 3Dlabs VX1-1600SW card Message-ID: Fellow geeks, Anyone have a 3Dlabs VX1-1600SW card laying about that they would like to sell? Please contact me off-list. Thanks Gary From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Thu Oct 10 16:10:31 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:10:31 -0400 Subject: [geeks] [jacobbartlet@msn.com: Re: VAX Floating Point Systems Array Processor, AP 120B] In-Reply-To: <231DF619-DC92-11D6-AE53-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> References: <20021010203622.GA25029@cs.millersville.edu> <231DF619-DC92-11D6-AE53-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> Message-ID: <20021010211031.GC25462@cs.millersville.edu> On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 04:52:06PM -0400, Chris Hedemark wrote: > On Thursday, October 10, 2002, at 04:36 PM, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > >I bet the chances of being killed in that area by that guy are less > >likely then you being killed in a car accident on the way home tonight. > > I'll take that bet. > > I haven't left the house all day. ;-) Find, then rather than tonight, the next time you are out in a car. :p -- Joshua D. Boyd From tgallaway at comcast.net Thu Oct 10 16:36:42 2002 From: tgallaway at comcast.net (Thomas Gallaway (wireless)) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:36:42 -0700 Subject: [geeks] [jacobbartlet@msn.com: Re: VAX Floating Point Systems Array Processor, AP 120B] In-Reply-To: <231DF619-DC92-11D6-AE53-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> References: <231DF619-DC92-11D6-AE53-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> Message-ID: <1034287728.132F1AA0@s5.dngr.org> Well pick up the vector point calculator and calculate the posibility to get shot vs. Dieing elehow... On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 5:24PM -0500, Chris Hedemark wrote: > On Thursday, October 10, 2002, at 04:36 PM, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > >> I bet the chances of being killed in that area by that guy are less >> likely then you being killed in a car accident on the way home >> tonight. > > I'll take that bet. > > I haven't left the house all day. ;-) > > Chris Hedemark > Professional Computer Consulting & Videography > Hillsborough, NC > http://yonderway.com > > "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." -Steve Wright > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From schatt at schatt.com Fri Oct 11 15:11:27 2002 From: schatt at schatt.com (Drew Schatt) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] How big is a pile of 40,000 PCs? In-Reply-To: <200210100636.g9A6awD06753@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > >(Name the movie I was paraphrasing). > > > > "No Ma'am, we're musicians." Blues Brothers... -Drew From vance at neurotica.com Fri Oct 11 22:56:34 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 23:56:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Re: [rescue] more booty on the way In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does the term "energy" really apply here? Isn't it more likely that neither matter nor energy existed? Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Francisco Javier Mesa-Martinez wrote: > > In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... > > Actually there was an infinite amount of energy concentrated on a single > tempo/spatial point (original singularity)..... > _______________________________________________ > rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Oct 11 23:34:51 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:34:51 -0400 Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! Message-ID: I'm in this month's issue of HostingTech magazine. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From chris at yonderway.com Fri Oct 11 23:57:31 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:57:31 -0400 Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1D90CF8C-DD9F-11D6-8A78-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> Now did they actually tell you before doing this? I remember when Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords gave a half page write up of part of my web site (http://yonderway.com/sleepers for anyone who cares) and the hits went through the roof but I had no idea why until all the emails started coming in. It was cool to see it in print but I had no idea they were doing that. On Saturday, October 12, 2002, at 12:34 AM, Dave McGuire wrote: > I'm in this month's issue of HostingTech magazine. :-) > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > Chris Hedemark Professional Computer Consulting & Videography Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." -Steve Wright From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 12 00:48:07 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021012054807.34567.qmail@web9307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave McGuire wrote: > I'm in this month's issue of HostingTech magazine. :-) Details? Links? I don't get that magazine... ;^) Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 From caleb at webninja.com Sat Oct 12 08:18:32 2002 From: caleb at webninja.com (Caleb Shay) Date: 12 Oct 2002 09:18:32 -0400 Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1034428716.3226.0.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net> Cool. I'm in this month's Tattoo Savage, but your's is cooler. Caleb On Sat, 2002-10-12 at 00:34, Dave McGuire wrote: > I'm in this month's issue of HostingTech magazine. :-) > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- [demime 0.99d.1 removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Oct 12 11:26:22 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 12:26:22 -0400 Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! In-Reply-To: <20021012054807.34567.qmail@web9307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <586756E4-DDFF-11D6-9697-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Saturday, October 12, 2002, at 01:48 AM, Lionel Peterson wrote: > --- Dave McGuire wrote: >> I'm in this month's issue of HostingTech magazine. :-) > > Details? > > Links? > > I don't get that magazine... ;^) Me neither; they sent me a copy. They did an article on the early days of Digex, and what was likely the first "hosted server" (although we didn't consider it as such; it would have been more of a "client" than a "server"!) which I built. There's a picture of me in there and everything. It sure is nice to get some fucking credit for a change, even if it is only a little bit. There are a whole gaggle of suits over there gloating to their friends about this big company that THEY built...HA! I've been overflowing with consuming angst about that for years. I work very hard, and I devote my life to my work...I may not do all that much, but I like to be recognized for what I do accomplish. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Oct 12 11:31:21 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 12:31:21 -0400 Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! In-Reply-To: <1D90CF8C-DD9F-11D6-8A78-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> Message-ID: <0AA58FA6-DE00-11D6-9697-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Saturday, October 12, 2002, at 12:57 AM, Chris Hedemark wrote: > Now did they actually tell you before doing this? They contacted me many months ago looking for a photo, but I didn't really think anything would come of it. Several of the johnny-come-lately suits at Digex worked very hard to downplay my involvement there, to the point of threatening to fire a guy who wrote a magazine article about the early days of the company...an article that told the real story, rather than the typical "we built this huge company by hiring a bunch of Vice Presidents and calling Microsoft!" story. Ironically, that same guy was the fellow who wrote this article...he left the company long ago so they can't fire him. ;) > I remember when Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords gave a half page write up > of part of my web site (http://yonderway.com/sleepers for anyone who > cares) and the hits went through the roof but I had no idea why until > all the emails started coming in. It was cool to see it in print but > I had no idea they were doing that. Ha, cool, a neat surprise! -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Oct 12 11:32:37 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 11:32:37 -0500 Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! In-Reply-To: <586756E4-DDFF-11D6-9697-000393970B96@neurotica.com> References: <20021012054807.34567.qmail@web9307.mail.yahoo.com> <586756E4-DDFF-11D6-9697-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20021012163237.GP15300@mrbill.net> On Sat, Oct 12, 2002 at 12:26:22PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > Me neither; they sent me a copy. They did an article on the early > days of Digex, and what was likely the first "hosted server" (although > we didn't consider it as such; it would have been more of a "client" > than a "server"!) which I built. There's a picture of me in there and > everything. Was that the pic of you holding hte 3/60 board? Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Oct 12 11:45:11 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 12:45:11 -0400 Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! In-Reply-To: <20021012163237.GP15300@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Saturday, October 12, 2002, at 12:32 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: >> Me neither; they sent me a copy. They did an article on the early >> days of Digex, and what was likely the first "hosted server" (although >> we didn't consider it as such; it would have been more of a "client" >> than a "server"!) which I built. There's a picture of me in there and >> everything. > > Was that the pic of you holding hte 3/60 board? They used a different one, but from the same batch. They actually talk about that 3/60 board in the article. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Oct 12 11:48:44 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 11:48:44 -0500 Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! In-Reply-To: References: <20021012163237.GP15300@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20021012164844.GR15300@mrbill.net> On Sat, Oct 12, 2002 at 12:45:11PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > >Was that the pic of you holding hte 3/60 board? > They used a different one, but from the same batch. They actually > talk about that 3/60 board in the article. and surely you have a scanner around... SCAN! SCAN! Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Oct 12 11:52:51 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 12:52:51 -0400 Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! In-Reply-To: <20021012164844.GR15300@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <0B697A40-DE03-11D6-9697-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Saturday, October 12, 2002, at 12:48 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: >>> Was that the pic of you holding hte 3/60 board? >> They used a different one, but from the same batch. They actually >> talk about that 3/60 board in the article. > > and surely you have a scanner around... SCAN! SCAN! I don't have one hooked up to anything at the moment, but I'll see what I can do. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From kris at catonic.net Sat Oct 12 14:47:53 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:47:53 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! In-Reply-To: <20021012164844.GR15300@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Bill Bradford wrote: > and surely you have a scanner around... SCAN! SCAN! Wot? You don't get HostingTech? Tucows has it sent to all of thier resellers... ...and $ORK[-2] was one. :) Yes, it's dave, although just his head -- he's got the pics up on-line somewhere -- at least they didn't crop off his hair[0]. Cool hack, by the way. Ingeneous. Worthy of mention in the list of great hacks of time -- like the hacks in Levy's Hackers -- such as adding new instructions to the TX-0 at MIT[1]... Hooray for Dave! [0]: LONG HAIRED UNIX GEEKS REPRESENT! :-) [1]: These instructions were literally wired in, back when a CPU was a board of discrete chips. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From vance at neurotica.com Sat Oct 12 16:43:21 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:43:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Kris Kirby wrote: > [1]: These instructions were literally wired in, back when a CPU was a > board of discrete chips. "Back when"? You can still buy a brand spanking new machine based on a modern design which uses boards full of chips as CPU's. Peace... Sridhar From matthew at poertner.net Sat Oct 12 23:02:20 2002 From: matthew at poertner.net (Harold oth' Erocks) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:02:20 -0700 Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! References: <1034428716.3226.0.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <3DA8F04C.25A18CBC@poertner.net> Tattoo's are kewl. I want more ink but I spend too much money on old computer crap. -Matt Caleb Shay wrote: > > Cool. I'm in this month's Tattoo Savage, but your's is cooler. > > Caleb From hamellr at heorot.1nova.com Sun Oct 13 03:37:26 2002 From: hamellr at heorot.1nova.com (Rick Hamell) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 01:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] ha! gonna buy five copies for my mother! In-Reply-To: <3DA8F04C.25A18CBC@poertner.net> Message-ID: > Tattoo's are kewl. I want more ink but I spend too much money on old > computer crap. While I spend too much money on old computer crap to buy new computer crap. :) Rick From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Oct 13 12:17:36 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 12:17:36 -0500 Subject: [geeks] new list search engine up Message-ID: <20021013171736.GS15300@mrbill.net> New search engine is up (WebGlimpse), replacing the installation of ht://dig I had previously. http://www.sunhelp.org/searchgeeks.php Let me know of any problems. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Sun Oct 13 14:01:33 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 15:01:33 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Large Mail files Message-ID: <20021013190133.GA21288@cs.millersville.edu> I have a 130some meg mail file. When I try to open it in mutt on a machine with 64megs of ram, mutt works for awhile, gets to something like 30 some thousand messages then dies. Pine on the other hand, just seems to go off to never never land -- Joshua D. Boyd From leo at nurgle.net Sun Oct 13 14:55:06 2002 From: leo at nurgle.net (Leo Green) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 12:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Finding out who owns an 866 number? In-Reply-To: <20021013171736.GS15300@mrbill.net> Message-ID: This strange quandary isnt exactly computer related, but we're all geeks here, and someone might know the answer here. I've been getting these strange voicemail messages, asking me to call some 866 number. No company identification is left on these messages. I call it, and I just immidately get placed on hold. No company identification, no NOTHING. I'd like to find out who owns this number and see if I can distribute appropriate larts to them, but I can't figure out who owns it. If you want the actual number, contact me off-list and i'll give it. -- ||| leo at nurgle.net - KEDR Webradio 2000 - 2002 R.I.P. ||| A darkness carried in the heart can not be cured by moving the body from one place to another. --Lennier, "Babylon 5" From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Oct 13 16:12:09 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 16:12:09 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Large Mail files In-Reply-To: <20021013190133.GA21288@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20021013190133.GA21288@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021013211209.GN15300@mrbill.net> On Sun, Oct 13, 2002 at 03:01:33PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > I have a 130some meg mail file. When I try to open it in mutt on a > machine with 64megs of ram, mutt works for awhile, gets to something > like 30 some thousand messages then dies. > Pine on the other hand, just seems to go off to never never land "man split" Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From mattyml at bellsouth.net Sun Oct 13 17:15:13 2002 From: mattyml at bellsouth.net (Ryan) Date: 13 Oct 2002 18:15:13 -0400 Subject: [geeks] 36GB Hard drives In-Reply-To: <20021013211209.GN15300@mrbill.net> References: <20021013190133.GA21288@cs.millersville.edu> <20021013211209.GN15300@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <1034547313.20871.8.camel@pooh> Anyone have any favorite vendors for 1" 7200RPM 36GB Ultra SCSI Hard drives? I need to get a pair of disks for my Ultra1, and am contemplating vendors. Any opinions on models and vendors? Thanks, Ryan From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Oct 13 17:17:10 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 17:17:10 -0500 Subject: [geeks] 36GB Hard drives In-Reply-To: <1034547313.20871.8.camel@pooh> References: <20021013190133.GA21288@cs.millersville.edu> <20021013211209.GN15300@mrbill.net> <1034547313.20871.8.camel@pooh> Message-ID: <20021013221710.GV15300@mrbill.net> On Sun, Oct 13, 2002 at 06:15:13PM -0400, Ryan wrote: > Anyone have any favorite vendors for 1" 7200RPM 36GB Ultra SCSI Hard > drives? I need to get a pair of disks for my Ultra1, and am > contemplating vendors. Any opinions on models and vendors? IBM, Fujitsu, or Seagate. Thats who Sun uses. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From kurt at k-huhn.com Sun Oct 13 17:28:05 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:28:05 -0400 Subject: [geeks] 36GB Hard drives In-Reply-To: <1034547313.20871.8.camel@pooh> References: <20021013190133.GA21288@cs.millersville.edu> <20021013211209.GN15300@mrbill.net> <1034547313.20871.8.camel@pooh> Message-ID: <20021013182805.48bed3ca.kurt@k-huhn.com> Ryan wrote: > Anyone have any favorite vendors for 1" 7200RPM 36GB Ultra SCSI Hard > drives? I need to get a pair of disks for my Ultra1, and am > contemplating vendors. Any opinions on models and vendors? I've never bought a 7200RPM drive from these guys, but http://www.dirtcheapdrives.com have excellent service, and pack everything very well. The last drive I bought from them was 18GB U160 SCA 10kRPM Seagate Cheatah for $139. Admitedly higher than eBay, but they had the *exact* drive I needed and wiould get it to me ASAP. -- Kurt "I remember that I've got a solid base of worms and kurt at k-huhn.com ant eggs. I puke like a hero all night long." -- Tony Bourdain From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 13 21:06:48 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 19:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Large Mail files In-Reply-To: <20021013190133.GA21288@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021014020648.1346.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joshua D Boyd wrote: > I have a 130some meg mail file. When I try to open it in mutt on a > machine with 64megs of ram, mutt works for awhile, gets to something > like 30 some thousand messages then dies. OK > Pine on the other hand, just seems to go off to never never land OK Is there a question around here, or are you just bragging ;^) Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 13 21:14:34 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 19:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Finding out who owns an 866 number? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021014021434.1625.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> Somebody may be getting a big phone bill... No, wait: http://www.melissadata.com/lookups/phonelocation.asp?number=866&submit1=Process It *is* toll-free, guess they are just morons... Odd - I once had a woman call my office phone and ramble on (with great passion) for almost 5 minutes in a tounge I couldn't even identify... Be aware though, they could route your toll-free call to a toll call (not clear how, but IIRC this was a problem, esp. with toll-free numbers that resolve to actual numbers in other jurisdictions (like some island nations off the coast of the US)) Lionel --- Leo Green wrote: > This strange quandary isnt exactly computer related, but we're all > geeks here, and someone might know the answer here. > > I've been getting these strange voicemail messages, asking me to call > some 866 number. No company identification is left on these messages. > > I call it, and I just immidately get placed on hold. No company > identification, no NOTHING. > > I'd like to find out who owns this number and see if I can distribute > appropriate larts to them, but I can't figure out who owns it. > > If you want the actual number, contact me off-list and i'll give it. ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 13 21:20:28 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 19:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Large Mail files In-Reply-To: <20021013211209.GN15300@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20021014022028.47572.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Bradford wrote: > On Sun, Oct 13, 2002 at 03:01:33PM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > I have a 130some meg mail file. When I try to open it in mutt on a > > machine with 64megs of ram, mutt works for awhile, gets to > something > > like 30 some thousand messages then dies. > > Pine on the other hand, just seems to go off to never never land > > "man split" Don't forget "man head", "man tail" or "man rm" ;^) Seriously, maybe it is time for a devistating system crash, taking the 130 meg of emails with it... ;^) Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 From chris at yonderway.com Sun Oct 13 22:46:24 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 23:46:24 -0400 Subject: [geeks] 36GB Hard drives In-Reply-To: <1034547313.20871.8.camel@pooh> Message-ID: <82FE270A-DF27-11D6-902C-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> http://www.corpsys.com On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 06:15 PM, Ryan wrote: > Anyone have any favorite vendors for 1" 7200RPM 36GB Ultra SCSI Hard > drives? I need to get a pair of disks for my Ultra1, and am > contemplating vendors. Any opinions on models and vendors? > > Thanks, > Ryan > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > Chris Hedemark Professional Computer Consulting & Videography Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." -Steve Wright From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Sun Oct 13 23:32:28 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:32:28 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Large Mail files In-Reply-To: <20021014020648.1346.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021013190133.GA21288@cs.millersville.edu> <20021014020648.1346.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021014043228.GA6264@cs.millersville.edu> On Sun, Oct 13, 2002 at 07:06:48PM -0700, Lionel Peterson wrote: > --- Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > I have a 130some meg mail file. When I try to open it in mutt on a > > machine with 64megs of ram, mutt works for awhile, gets to something > > like 30 some thousand messages then dies. > > OK > > > Pine on the other hand, just seems to go off to never never land > > OK > > Is there a question around here, or are you just bragging ;^) No, not meaning to brag. I keep archives of mail over the years, and really did want to search the file for a particular message. -- Joshua D. Boyd From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Oct 14 03:18:47 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 04:18:47 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Jaguar/Wallstreet Message-ID: <8FDB7D01-DF4D-11D6-9697-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Hey. Has anyone here successfully installed Jaguar on a Powerbook G3 Wallstreet? -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From leo at nurgle.net Mon Oct 14 10:09:10 2002 From: leo at nurgle.net (Leo Green) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:09:10 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Jaguar/Wallstreet In-Reply-To: <8FDB7D01-DF4D-11D6-9697-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: My mac-geek friend runs osx on that laptop. I also have it running on a G3 clamshell IBook. After you turn off font smoothing, and the dropshadows, it actually runs decently, too. On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 01:18 AM, Dave McGuire wrote: > Hey. Has anyone here successfully installed Jaguar on a > Powerbook G3 Wallstreet? > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From rlonstein at pobox.com Mon Oct 14 12:49:54 2002 From: rlonstein at pobox.com (R. Lonstein) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:49:54 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Large Mail files In-Reply-To: <20021014043228.GA6264@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20021013190133.GA21288@cs.millersville.edu> <20021014020648.1346.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> <20021014043228.GA6264@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021014174954.GA2406@mail.lonsteins.com> On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 12:32:28AM -0400, Joshua D Boyd wrote: [snip] > I keep archives of mail over the years, and > really did want to search the file for a particular message. > you want grepmail. And to archive by date every few months. - Ross From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Oct 14 15:01:57 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:01:57 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Jaguar/Wallstreet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm trying to install it, and as soon as it boots from CDROM the LCD backlight turns of and won't turn back on until I power cycle the machine. It's highly irritating. Any suggestions? -Dave On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 11:09 AM, Leo Green wrote: > My mac-geek friend runs osx on that laptop. > I also have it running on a G3 clamshell IBook. After you turn off > font smoothing, and the dropshadows, it actually runs decently, too. > > On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 01:18 AM, Dave McGuire wrote: > >> Hey. Has anyone here successfully installed Jaguar on a Powerbook >> G3 Wallstreet? >> >> -Dave >> >> -- >> Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... >> St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke >> _______________________________________________ >> GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From tgallaway at comcast.net Mon Oct 14 15:12:14 2002 From: tgallaway at comcast.net (Thomas Gallaway) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:12:14 -0400 Subject: [geeks] FS: Boundless/ADDS/Phase X/NCR Model 3534 X11 Terminals Message-ID: <001101c273be$056b6520$1500a8c0@smack> Hey We got a whole bunch of Boundless/ADDS/Phase X/NCR (they are all the same) Model 3534 X Terminal's. http://www.dc2600.org/stuff/xinside.jpg http://www.dc2600.org/stuff/xfront.jpg http://www.dc2600.org/stuff/xback.jpg Takes standard VGA monitor and PS2 keyboard/mouse. Boots from network via bootp or rarp and tftp. Has 32 megs of ram. Resolution up to 1600x1200x8bit. You will get the link to download the software for those... trust me this software was very hard to get but we got it... Right now we're booting them all up to make sure they work properly. Price: $15 a pice or if you want more than 10 we can make a deal. S&H depends on how much you want. We need to get rid of them and we have about 100+ of them. The money actually goes in our new house fund :-) Bye, Thomas From chris at yonderway.com Mon Oct 14 16:11:55 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:11:55 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Jaguar/Wallstreet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91945476-DFB9-11D6-902C-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 04:01 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: > I'm trying to install it, and as soon as it boots from CDROM the LCD > backlight turns of and won't turn back on until I power cycle the > machine. It's highly irritating. Any suggestions? External monitor? Of course, if that works there is no guarantee that it will work right once the OS is loaded. If you do try it, immediately upgrade to 10.2.1 while the monitor is still attached in case this is a fixed bug. Chris Hedemark Professional Computer Consulting & Videography Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." -Steve Wright From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Mon Oct 14 16:17:27 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:17:27 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Blender is open Message-ID: <20021014211727.GA7423@cs.millersville.edu> Blender source code was finally released yesterday. I mentioned previously that it would be happening (plus I know a few people read /.). Has anyone managed to get it to compile yet? I want to try, but won't get a chance till tomorrow evening at the earliest. -- Joshua D. Boyd From caleb at webninja.com Mon Oct 14 16:33:04 2002 From: caleb at webninja.com (Caleb Shay) Date: 14 Oct 2002 17:33:04 -0400 Subject: [geeks] FS: Boundless/ADDS/Phase X/NCR Model 3534 X11 Terminals In-Reply-To: <001101c273be$056b6520$1500a8c0@smack> References: <001101c273be$056b6520$1500a8c0@smack> Message-ID: <1034631184.15671.3.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net> Looks intesting. Where are you located, what's the shipping, what the hell are these things anyways? Caleb On Mon, 2002-10-14 at 16:12, Thomas Gallaway wrote: > Hey > > We got a whole bunch of Boundless/ADDS/Phase X/NCR (they are all the same) > Model 3534 > X Terminal's. > http://www.dc2600.org/stuff/xinside.jpg > http://www.dc2600.org/stuff/xfront.jpg > http://www.dc2600.org/stuff/xback.jpg > > Takes standard VGA monitor and PS2 keyboard/mouse. Boots from network via > bootp or rarp and tftp. Has 32 megs of ram. Resolution up to 1600x1200x8bit. > You will get the link to download the software for those... trust me this > software was very hard to get > but we got it... > Right now we're booting them all up to make sure they work properly. > > Price: $15 a pice or if you want more than 10 we can make a deal. > S&H depends on how much you want. > > We need to get rid of them and we have about 100+ of them. The money > actually goes > in our new house fund :-) > > Bye, > Thomas > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- From tgallaway at comcast.net Mon Oct 14 16:54:37 2002 From: tgallaway at comcast.net (Thomas Gallaway) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:54:37 -0400 Subject: [geeks] FS: Boundless/ADDS/Phase X/NCR Model 3534 X11 Terminals References: <001101c273be$056b6520$1500a8c0@smack> <1034631184.15671.3.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <00a301c273cc$4a84b950$1500a8c0@smack> Hey They are in northern Virginia. Shipping depends on how many you want (somwhat around 10-15$ a piece but we havent figured it out jet.) And they are X11 Terminals. If you have any machine running a X server and an NFS and BootP you can have those boot off the network and then give you a X session running of this box. You can have 1 fast machine and hook 20 of those baby's up and have 20 people surf the web or do work on them and they use the processor of the server they connect to. (I hope I explained that correct) Cja, Thomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caleb Shay" To: Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] FS: Boundless/ADDS/Phase X/NCR Model 3534 X11 Terminals > Looks intesting. Where are you located, what's the shipping, what the > hell are these things anyways? > > Caleb > > On Mon, 2002-10-14 at 16:12, Thomas Gallaway wrote: > > Hey > > > > We got a whole bunch of Boundless/ADDS/Phase X/NCR (they are all the same) > > Model 3534 > > X Terminal's. > > http://www.dc2600.org/stuff/xinside.jpg > > http://www.dc2600.org/stuff/xfront.jpg > > http://www.dc2600.org/stuff/xback.jpg > > > > Takes standard VGA monitor and PS2 keyboard/mouse. Boots from network via > > bootp or rarp and tftp. Has 32 megs of ram. Resolution up to 1600x1200x8bit. > > You will get the link to download the software for those... trust me this > > software was very hard to get > > but we got it... > > Right now we're booting them all up to make sure they work properly. > > > > Price: $15 a pice or if you want more than 10 we can make a deal. > > S&H depends on how much you want. > > > > We need to get rid of them and we have about 100+ of them. The money > > actually goes > > in our new house fund :-) > > > > Bye, > > Thomas > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > -- > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com Mon Oct 14 16:57:08 2002 From: simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:57:08 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Jaguar/Wallstreet Message-ID: This just happened on a Lombard. It was the thingumy voltage board that went bad. I just had to turn the display all the way down (via the KB) and then up again. It seemed to effectively reset the backlight. Probably not your problem though. :-) And probably won't work without controling software, which wouldn't be part of the OS X install. Man I'm good at discrediting my own advice. I'm RETARDED! WOOOOOH!!! Sim I'd try the external monitor suggestion though. There's gotta be a fix for a problem like that. > I'm trying to install it, and as soon as it boots from > CDROM the LCD > backlight turns of and won't turn back on until I power cycle the > machine. It's highly irritating. Any suggestions? > > -Dave From leo at nurgle.net Mon Oct 14 17:05:21 2002 From: leo at nurgle.net (Leo Green) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Jaguar/Wallstreet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've never heard of this problem exactly... Let me see if I understand whats happening, exactly. As soon as the CD boots, the backlight goes off, but the install still continues, and you can still see the screen, although its very dark, correct? I also assumed you tried to hit the display buttons on the keyboard, and nothing happined. Now I know that some of the wallstreets had issues with the little magnetic sensor thingy that would kep it from waking up from "sleep" even though the case was open. You might want to try waving a small magnet over the sensor and see if it wakes up. Also, how big of a HD does this guy have? Has it been upgraded past 8gb? On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: %> I'm trying to install it, and as soon as it boots from CDROM the LCD %>backlight turns of and won't turn back on until I power cycle the %>machine. It's highly irritating. Any suggestions? %> %> -Dave %> %>On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 11:09 AM, Leo Green wrote: %>> My mac-geek friend runs osx on that laptop. %>> I also have it running on a G3 clamshell IBook. After you turn off %>> font smoothing, and the dropshadows, it actually runs decently, too. %>> [snipped] -- ||| leo at nurgle.net - KEDR Webradio 2000 - 2002 R.I.P. ||| Win2k: "It's not so much that it's only 65,000 bugs, it's just that they stopped at 65,535 to prevent an overflow." -- Mazel#Tov, Slashdot From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Oct 14 17:13:57 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:13:57 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Jaguar/Wallstreet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3BC547E1-DFC2-11D6-9697-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 06:05 PM, Leo Green wrote: > I've never heard of this problem exactly... > > Let me see if I understand whats happening, exactly. > As soon as the CD boots, the backlight goes off, but the install still > continues, and you can still see the screen, although its very dark, > correct? I also assumed you tried to hit the display buttons on the > keyboard, and nothing happined. Yup. > Now I know that some of the wallstreets had issues with the little > magnetic sensor thingy that would kep it from waking up from "sleep" > even > though the case > was open. You might want to try waving a small magnet over the sensor > and > see if it wakes up. I'll give that a try. > Also, how big of a HD does this guy have? Has it been upgraded past > 8gb? Nope. 6GB. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From caleb at webninja.com Mon Oct 14 20:29:57 2002 From: caleb at webninja.com (Caleb Shay) Date: 14 Oct 2002 21:29:57 -0400 Subject: [geeks] FS: Boundless/ADDS/Phase X/NCR Model 3534 X11 Terminals In-Reply-To: <00a301c273cc$4a84b950$1500a8c0@smack> References: <001101c273be$056b6520$1500a8c0@smack> <1034631184.15671.3.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net> <00a301c273cc$4a84b950$1500a8c0@smack> Message-ID: <1034645397.21416.5.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net> Do they run some sort of OS locally, or are they pretty much just an X server and nothing else? Regardless, I'll probably take two if you can tell me what the total would be to Providence, RI. Caleb On Mon, 2002-10-14 at 17:54, Thomas Gallaway wrote: > Hey > > They are in northern Virginia. Shipping depends on how many you want > (somwhat around > 10-15$ a piece but we havent figured it out jet.) > And they are X11 Terminals. If you have any machine running a X server and > an NFS and > BootP you can have those boot off the network and then give you a X session > running > of this box. You can have 1 fast machine and hook 20 of those baby's up and > have 20 > people surf the web or do work on them and they use the processor of the > server they > connect to. (I hope I explained that correct) > > Cja, > Thomas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Caleb Shay" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 5:33 PM > Subject: Re: [geeks] FS: Boundless/ADDS/Phase X/NCR Model 3534 X11 Terminals > > > > Looks intesting. Where are you located, what's the shipping, what the > > hell are these things anyways? > > > > Caleb > > > > On Mon, 2002-10-14 at 16:12, Thomas Gallaway wrote: > > > Hey > > > > > > We got a whole bunch of Boundless/ADDS/Phase X/NCR (they are all the > same) > > > Model 3534 > > > X Terminal's. > > > http://www.dc2600.org/stuff/xinside.jpg > > > http://www.dc2600.org/stuff/xfront.jpg > > > http://www.dc2600.org/stuff/xback.jpg > > > > > > Takes standard VGA monitor and PS2 keyboard/mouse. Boots from network > via > > > bootp or rarp and tftp. Has 32 megs of ram. Resolution up to > 1600x1200x8bit. > > > You will get the link to download the software for those... trust me > this > > > software was very hard to get > > > but we got it... > > > Right now we're booting them all up to make sure they work properly. > > > > > > Price: $15 a pice or if you want more than 10 we can make a deal. > > > S&H depends on how much you want. > > > > > > We need to get rid of them and we have about 100+ of them. The money > > > actually goes > > > in our new house fund :-) > > > > > > Bye, > > > Thomas > > > _______________________________________________ > > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- [demime 0.99d.1 removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From ekholm at ekholm.org Mon Oct 14 21:09:39 2002 From: ekholm at ekholm.org (Mike Ekholm) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:09:39 -0500 Subject: [geeks] fujitsu sparc clones Message-ID: <20021015020939.GD28440@ekholm.org> Hi all! Someone from our internal finance team brought in Fujitsu to do a presentation on their sparc based hardware. I was wondering if anyone has had experience with the fujitsu sparc clones, and what their impressions of the hardware, software compatibility and support services are. I have found very little information on the Internet so far, so at this point I have very little to go on. Thanks! -Mike Ekholm -- UNIX Sys Admin | ekholm at ekholm.org | http://www.ekholm.org | IRC: Nalez ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's hard to find people in society who can administer UNIX and professionally carry a weapon." - Jim Williams, former FBI Computer Intrusion Squad agent From gary at linuxforce.org Mon Oct 14 21:59:26 2002 From: gary at linuxforce.org (Gary Nichols) Date: 14 Oct 2002 19:59:26 -0700 Subject: [geeks] FS: Geeky Pioneer DVR-103 DVD Burner IDE Message-ID: <1034650772.9433.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Seems hard times are hitting everyone nowadays. A buddy of mine has been out of work for quite a while and is now selling kit to stay afloat. He is selling his prized Pioneer DVR-103 DVD Writer for $300. It's almost new and this guy is definately legit - I can personally vouch for the goodness of his kit. Details: http://support.packardbell-europe.com/support/pri/item/item_spec_Pioneer_DVR -103.asp?c=ap http://shop.store.yahoo.com/ourstore-2000/piondvra0dvd.html [Note: I just looked this up on the web, and you can shove this into a G4 replacing the existing DVD drive and it'll work with iMovie] Interested parties can email him at frankc at flashmail.com to avoid further clutter of geeks. :-) Thanks for looking. Move along, nothing to see here. Batteries not included. From vance at neurotica.com Mon Oct 14 22:23:27 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:23:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] FS: Geeky Pioneer DVR-103 DVD Burner IDE In-Reply-To: <1034650772.9433.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: If it was SCSI, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Peace... Sridhar On 14 Oct 2002, Gary Nichols wrote: > Seems hard times are hitting everyone nowadays. A buddy of mine has > been > out of work for quite a while and is now selling kit to stay afloat. > > He is selling his prized Pioneer DVR-103 DVD Writer for $300. It's > almost > new and this guy is definately legit - I can personally vouch for the > goodness of his kit. > > Details: > > http://support.packardbell-europe.com/support/pri/item/item_spec_Pioneer_DVR > -103.asp?c=ap > > http://shop.store.yahoo.com/ourstore-2000/piondvra0dvd.html > > [Note: I just looked this up on the web, and you can shove this into a > G4 > replacing the existing DVD drive and it'll work with iMovie] > > Interested parties can email him at frankc at flashmail.com to avoid > further > clutter of geeks. :-) > > Thanks for looking. Move along, nothing to see here. Batteries not > included. > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From stefan at csudsu.com Mon Oct 14 22:31:23 2002 From: stefan at csudsu.com (Stefan Molnar) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] fujitsu sparc clones In-Reply-To: <20021015020939.GD28440@ekholm.org> Message-ID: <20021014202232.R40358-100000@clockwork.csudsu.com> Well the current Fuji hardware is not a clone exactly but it's own ultra sparc "flavor" Taho's line etc are sun4us. For some time you needed to run a Fuji based Solaris to actully run it, but with Sol7 MU3 all the bits were added into the solaris releases to support sun4u nativly. You must install Full + OEM to get all the needed hooks. I was with SunSoft doing the testing with the Fuji's so below is a pick of the Taho 3 boxes I had to beat on. Normal software should not need a recomple, except those that like to deal with kernel bits, like ipfilter, top, etc. http://www.csudsu.com/~stefan/e6k-fuji.jpg On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Mike Ekholm wrote: > Hi all! > Someone from our internal finance team brought in Fujitsu to do a > presentation on their sparc based hardware. I was wondering if anyone > has had experience with the fujitsu sparc clones, and what their impressions > of the hardware, software compatibility and support services are. > > I have found very little information on the Internet so far, so at this > point I have very little to go on. > > Thanks! > > > -Mike Ekholm > > -- > UNIX Sys Admin | ekholm at ekholm.org | http://www.ekholm.org | IRC: Nalez > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > "It's hard to find people in society who can administer UNIX > and professionally carry a weapon." > - Jim Williams, former FBI Computer Intrusion Squad agent > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From stefan at csudsu.com Mon Oct 14 22:31:23 2002 From: stefan at csudsu.com (Stefan Molnar) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] fujitsu sparc clones In-Reply-To: <20021015020939.GD28440@ekholm.org> Message-ID: <20021014202232.R40358-100000@clockwork.csudsu.com> Well the current Fuji hardware is not a clone exactly but it's own ultra sparc "flavor" Taho's line etc are sun4us. For some time you needed to run a Fuji based Solaris to actully run it, but with Sol7 MU3 all the bits were added into the solaris releases to support sun4u nativly. You must install Full + OEM to get all the needed hooks. I was with SunSoft doing the testing with the Fuji's so below is a pick of the Taho 3 boxes I had to beat on. Normal software should not need a recomple, except those that like to deal with kernel bits, like ipfilter, top, etc. http://www.csudsu.com/~stefan/e6k-fuji.jpg On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Mike Ekholm wrote: > Hi all! > Someone from our internal finance team brought in Fujitsu to do a > presentation on their sparc based hardware. I was wondering if anyone > has had experience with the fujitsu sparc clones, and what their impressions > of the hardware, software compatibility and support services are. > > I have found very little information on the Internet so far, so at this > point I have very little to go on. > > Thanks! > > > -Mike Ekholm > > -- > UNIX Sys Admin | ekholm at ekholm.org | http://www.ekholm.org | IRC: Nalez > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > "It's hard to find people in society who can administer UNIX > and professionally carry a weapon." > - Jim Williams, former FBI Computer Intrusion Squad agent > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From bhutin at yahoo.fr Tue Oct 15 02:47:16 2002 From: bhutin at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?Bertrand=20HUTIN?=) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:47:16 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [geeks] Re: Fujitsu Sparc hardware In-Reply-To: <20021015033807.3299.66727.Mailman@ohno.mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20021015074716.45829.qmail@web40801.mail.yahoo.com> Solaris Installation on Fujitsu Siemens Primepower uses the Sun Media. I once installed some of these machines. Processor architecture is slightly different and delivers more power at the same clock frequency (cache is managed better) As Sparc Consortium foundators are Sun and Fujistu, full binary compatibility is insured. More information here: http://www.ftsi.fujitsu.com/services/products/primepower/solaris.html says that the S-- > De: Mike Ekholm > @: geeks at mrbill.net > Objet: [geeks] fujitsu sparc clones > > Hi all! > Someone from our internal finance team brought in Fujitsu to do a > presentation on their sparc based hardware. I was wondering if anyone > has had experience with the fujitsu sparc clones, and what their > impressions > of the hardware, software compatibility and support services are. > > I have found very little information on the Internet so far, so at > this > point I have very little to go on. > > Thanks! > > > -Mike Ekholm > > -- > UNIX Sys Admin | ekholm at ekholm.org | http://www.ekholm.org | IRC: > Nalez > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > "It's hard to find people in society who can administer UNIX > and professionally carry a weapon." > - Jim Williams, former FBI Computer Intrusion Squad agent From woods at weird.com Tue Oct 15 09:40:51 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:40:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] fujitsu sparc clones In-Reply-To: <20021015020939.GD28440@ekholm.org> References: <20021015020939.GD28440@ekholm.org> Message-ID: <20021015144051.942E0A@proven.weird.com> [ On Monday, October 14, 2002 at 21:09:39 (-0500), Mike Ekholm wrote: ] > Subject: [geeks] fujitsu sparc clones > > Someone from our internal finance team brought in Fujitsu to do a > presentation on their sparc based hardware. I was wondering if anyone > has had experience with the fujitsu sparc clones, and what their impressions > of the hardware, software compatibility and support services are. I did some porting to Fujitsu stuff a very long time ago, back when an SS20 was hot news. But back at that time Fujitsu was making bigger servers (running SysVr4, and though I don't remember which CPU they had, it may not even have been SPARC) and they were just selling Sun workstations, not even "re-badged" IIRC. > I have found very little information on the Internet so far, so at this > point I have very little to go on. I suspect you're referring to the primepower systems. You probably won't find much in the way of end-user commentary unless you read Japanese, or unless you trust the Fujitsu supplied docs. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From swallbridge at franticfilms.com Tue Oct 15 11:52:31 2002 From: swallbridge at franticfilms.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:52:31 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Argh! Message-ID: <3DAC47CF.7090603@franticfilms.com> A client with my co-locating company didn't patch his SSL. I got an email this morning saying his machine was trying to break into some machine in California. Turns out he got infected by the Slapper worm. Me thinks it's time to get a Snort machine up and running. shawn From wstan at xs4all.nl Tue Oct 15 12:21:51 2002 From: wstan at xs4all.nl (William S.) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:21:51 +0200 Subject: [geeks] Argh! In-Reply-To: <3DAC47CF.7090603@franticfilms.com> References: <3DAC47CF.7090603@franticfilms.com> Message-ID: <20021015172151.GA62367@xs4all.nl> What is a snort machine? Is it a hardware or software solution? (Wondering if this is a term I should know...) On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 11:52:31AM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > A client with my co-locating company didn't patch his SSL. I got an > email this morning saying his machine was trying to break into some > machine in California. Turns out he got infected by the Slapper worm. > > Me thinks it's time to get a Snort machine up and running. > -- Bill Amsterdam, NL From mike at blackhairy.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 15 12:34:04 2002 From: mike at blackhairy.demon.co.uk (Mike Meredith) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:34:04 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Argh! In-Reply-To: <20021015172151.GA62367@xs4all.nl> References: <3DAC47CF.7090603@franticfilms.com> <20021015172151.GA62367@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200210151834.04998.mike@blackhairy.demon.co.uk> On Tuesday 15 October 2002 6:21 pm, William S. wrote: > What is a snort machine? Is it a hardware or software > solution? (Wondering if this is a term I should know...) It's a software package to do intrusion detection system that works quite well ... see http://www.snort.org/ From swallbridge at franticfilms.com Tue Oct 15 12:33:22 2002 From: swallbridge at franticfilms.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:33:22 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Argh! References: <3DAC47CF.7090603@franticfilms.com> <20021015172151.GA62367@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3DAC5162.90300@franticfilms.com> William S. wrote: >What is a snort machine? Is it a hardware or software >solution? (Wondering if this is a term I should know...) > >On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 11:52:31AM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > > >>A client with my co-locating company didn't patch his SSL. I got an >>email this morning saying his machine was trying to break into some >>machine in California. Turns out he got infected by the Slapper worm. >> >>Me thinks it's time to get a Snort machine up and running. >> >> >> > > > Sorry, Snort is an Intrusion Detection package (www.snort.org). It will tell you if a) people are trying to do bad things to your machines b) your machines are trying to do bad things to other machines. Either way, it would probably have caught this much earlier. I had planned on using a Sun Ultra1 running OpenBSD to do this, but I am going to have to get a machine up tonight and the U1 isn't here yet, so I am going to have to use a SS5 for now. shawn From wstan at xs4all.nl Tue Oct 15 12:46:37 2002 From: wstan at xs4all.nl (William S.) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:46:37 +0200 Subject: [geeks] Argh! In-Reply-To: <3DAC5162.90300@franticfilms.com> References: <3DAC47CF.7090603@franticfilms.com> <20021015172151.GA62367@xs4all.nl> <3DAC5162.90300@franticfilms.com> Message-ID: <20021015174637.GB62367@xs4all.nl> Cool on "snort". I just checked up on whether it is on the www.trinux.org page and it is mentioned there as a package. I have been playing with trinux the past couple days on my Thinkpad. It runs on ramdisk and has options on floppy or cdrom install. It is promoted as a good security system. You heard of it? http://www.trinux.org I think I will experiment with some of the packages. If you go to the page there is a list. Any recommendations on "favorites" anyone? At some point I would like to get a wireless cardbus card for my laptop and cruise around looking for public/private access points. Can anyone suggest a good place to start for info? software? Any good stories? On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 12:33:22PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > William S. wrote: > > >What is a snort machine? Is it a hardware or software > >solution? (Wondering if this is a term I should know...) > > > Sorry, Snort is an Intrusion Detection package (www.snort.org). It will > tell you if a) people are trying to do bad things to your machines b) > your machines are trying to do bad things to other machines. Either way, > it would probably have caught this much earlier. > > I had planned on using a Sun Ultra1 running OpenBSD to do this, but I am > going to have to get a machine up tonight and the U1 isn't here yet, so > I am going to have to use a SS5 for now. > -- Bill Amsterdam, NL From brooke at gravitt.org Tue Oct 15 22:15:36 2002 From: brooke at gravitt.org (brooke) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:15:36 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Stuff For Sale Message-ID: <8A67591C-E0B5-11D6-86C5-000393095F3C@gravitt.org> Due to some unforseen circumstances, I have to sell off most of my computing stuff. I'll be listing everything on eBay Thursday, so let me know ASAP if you are interested. Please respond off-list as i get the digests. Sun Blade 100, 384 MB Ram, 80 GB HD, Sun USB Keyboard, mouse. & SunPCI card (with Solaris 9 Media set) PowerMac G4 867, SuperDrive, 1.5GB Ram, 60GB HD, GeForce4 Ti , KB/Mouse Apple Studio Display 15" LCD (ADC) Apple Studio Display 15" LCD (DVI) (4) PowerMac 8500 120s, various ram complement & hd. NeXT workstation, keyboard, mouse, soundbox. HP Sure Store 1200e AutoLoader (2) HP SureStore 24X6 AutoLoader with magazines & tapes. Adaptec Ultra LVD SCSI card Apple Studio Display 17" CRT several SCSI CD-ROM drives (an IBM from an RS/6000, a Smart & Friendly CD-Burner, 3 Apple internal, 1 external w/o caddy) If you have any interest, let me know. I'm in the Atlanta area and can be reached by phone at 678.984.1074 Thanks, Brooke From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Wed Oct 16 00:06:25 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:06:25 -0400 Subject: [geeks] FLAC mime type Message-ID: <20021016050625.GA12833@cs.millersville.edu> I'm trying to set up network streaming FLAC files between machines. It works by you go to a local web site (http://servitude/music/ but that's not going to work on the open net), and choose the artist and album you want to listen to. By clicking on the link, I want the web browser to open the file in the proper player (which would generally be either xmms or winamp, since they are the only ones supported). But, what is the mime type for flac files? I can't seem to find it on their web site. When I click on a link to a .flac file in mozilla, it tries to display the file as text rather than open xmms. -- Joshua D. Boyd From jp at celestrion.net Wed Oct 16 00:15:26 2002 From: jp at celestrion.net (Jonathan C Patschke) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:15:26 -0500 Subject: [geeks] FLAC mime type In-Reply-To: <20021016050625.GA12833@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <47B7048C-E0C6-11D6-8519-00050231AC2D@celestrion.net> On Wednesday, Oct 16, 2002, at 00:06 US/Central, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > But, what is the mime type for flac files? I can't find any authoritative answer, but I'd assume it would be audio/x-flac. > When I click on a link to a .flac file in mozilla, it > tries to display the file as text rather than open xmms. More than likely, that's just someone who hasn't told their web server what .flac files' MIME type is supposed to be, so I guess you're even. :) -- Jonathan C. Patschke Celestrion Information Systems Thorndale, TX From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Wed Oct 16 00:42:34 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:42:34 -0400 Subject: [geeks] FLAC mime type In-Reply-To: <47B7048C-E0C6-11D6-8519-00050231AC2D@celestrion.net> References: <20021016050625.GA12833@cs.millersville.edu> <47B7048C-E0C6-11D6-8519-00050231AC2D@celestrion.net> Message-ID: <20021016054234.GA13366@cs.millersville.edu> On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 12:15:26AM -0500, Jonathan C Patschke wrote: > On Wednesday, Oct 16, 2002, at 00:06 US/Central, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > >But, what is the mime type for flac files? > > I can't find any authoritative answer, but I'd assume it would be > audio/x-flac. I realized that I could pick anything I wanted as I controled both ends, so I picked that based on copying and modifying the audio/x-wav line. > >When I click on a link to a .flac file in mozilla, it > >tries to display the file as text rather than open xmms. > > More than likely, that's just someone who hasn't told their web server > what .flac files' MIME type is supposed to be, so I guess you're even. Well seeing as the web server is apache running on one of my machines. I updated the mime.types file... I wonder if I need to restart apache... Yep, that fixed the .flac file problems. Now if only I could figure out why .m3u files are still misbehaving, since I set there mime type on both ends as well. -- Joshua D. Boyd From leo at nurgle.net Wed Oct 16 00:58:25 2002 From: leo at nurgle.net (leo at nurgle.net) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:58:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] FLAC mime type In-Reply-To: <20021016054234.GA13366@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: Editing the mime.types file is usually not recommended, btw. Usually, you should just to an AddType in the httpd.conf On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Joshua D Boyd wrote: %>On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 12:15:26AM -0500, Jonathan C Patschke wrote: %>> On Wednesday, Oct 16, 2002, at 00:06 US/Central, Joshua D Boyd wrote: %>> %>> >But, what is the mime type for flac files? %>> %>> I can't find any authoritative answer, but I'd assume it would be %>> audio/x-flac. %> %>I realized that I could pick anything I wanted as I controled both ends, %>so I picked that based on copying and modifying the audio/x-wav line. %> %>> >When I click on a link to a .flac file in mozilla, it %>> >tries to display the file as text rather than open xmms. %>> %>> More than likely, that's just someone who hasn't told their web server %>> what .flac files' MIME type is supposed to be, so I guess you're even. %> %>Well seeing as the web server is apache running on one of my machines. %>I updated the mime.types file... %> %>I wonder if I need to restart apache... Yep, that fixed the .flac file %>problems. Now if only I could figure out why .m3u files are still %>misbehaving, since I set there mime type on both ends as well. %> %> -- ||| leo at nurgle.net - KEDR Webradio 2000 - 2002 R.I.P. ||| [Women] just think they're smart cause we're too smart to tell them they're idiots. --Kevin "KapitalK" Gregg From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Wed Oct 16 01:00:46 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 02:00:46 -0400 Subject: [geeks] FLAC mime type In-Reply-To: References: <20021016054234.GA13366@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021016060046.GB14265@cs.millersville.edu> On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 10:58:25PM -0700, leo at nurgle.net wrote: > > Editing the mime.types file is usually not recommended, btw. Usually, you > should just to an AddType in the httpd.conf > I didn't see any mention of mime in httpd.conf. If I had, I'd probably have added it there. I'll have to go back and change it now. -- Joshua D. Boyd From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Oct 17 00:10:02 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:10:02 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K Message-ID: Hi folks. A friend just asked me where to find an SSH client for Windows2000. Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From geek at geeksworld.net Thu Oct 17 00:10:43 2002 From: geek at geeksworld.net (Geek) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:10:43 -0500 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K References: Message-ID: <043901c2759b$8bcdb490$3ece5218@RivenDell> puTTY. Dwight Wallbridge, Managing Editor, GeekMeltdown.com GeekMeltdown http://www.geekmeltdown.com Geek's World http://www.geeksworld.net Geek Blog http://www.geekblog.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:10 AM Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K | Hi folks. | | A friend just asked me where to find an SSH client for Windows2000. | Can someone point me in the right direction? | | Thanks, | -Dave | | -- | Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... | St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke | _______________________________________________ | GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Oct 17 00:17:37 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:17:37 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K In-Reply-To: <043901c2759b$8bcdb490$3ece5218@RivenDell> Message-ID: Can it do scp or sftp too? -Dave On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 01:10 AM, Geek wrote: > puTTY. > > > Dwight Wallbridge, > Managing Editor, GeekMeltdown.com > > GeekMeltdown http://www.geekmeltdown.com > Geek's World http://www.geeksworld.net > Geek Blog http://www.geekblog.net/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave McGuire" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:10 AM > Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K > > > | Hi folks. > | > | A friend just asked me where to find an SSH client for > Windows2000. > | Can someone point me in the right direction? > | > | Thanks, > | -Dave > | > | -- > | Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > | St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > | _______________________________________________ > | GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From geek at geeksworld.net Thu Oct 17 00:20:59 2002 From: geek at geeksworld.net (Geek) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:20:59 -0500 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K References: Message-ID: <046801c2759c$fb281050$3ece5218@RivenDell> I think, but am not sure, that it does not, but I do recall hearing of another Win32 scp/sftp client... let me look. WinSCP is it(http://winscp.vse.cz/eng/) and here is puTTY http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/. Here is one that does both SCP and SSH http://www.jfitz.com/tips/ssh_for_windows.html. Dwight Wallbridge, Managing Editor, GeekMeltdown.com GeekMeltdown http://www.geekmeltdown.com Geek's World http://www.geeksworld.net Geek Blog http://www.geekblog.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:17 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K | Can it do scp or sftp too? | | -Dave | | On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 01:10 AM, Geek wrote: | > puTTY. | > | > | > Dwight Wallbridge, | > Managing Editor, GeekMeltdown.com | > | > GeekMeltdown http://www.geekmeltdown.com | > Geek's World http://www.geeksworld.net | > Geek Blog http://www.geekblog.net/ | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "Dave McGuire" | > To: | > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:10 AM | > Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K | > | > | > | Hi folks. | > | | > | A friend just asked me where to find an SSH client for | > Windows2000. | > | Can someone point me in the right direction? | > | | > | Thanks, | > | -Dave | > | | > | -- | > | Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... | > | St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke | > | _______________________________________________ | > | GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks | > _______________________________________________ | > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks | > | > | | -- | Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... | St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke | _______________________________________________ | GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From chris at yonderway.com Thu Oct 17 00:25:09 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:25:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes. Well, no. putty.exe is a win32 workalike for ssh. There are also freebie scp/sftp workalikes too, but they are separate downloads from the same page. On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 01:17 AM, Dave McGuire wrote: > Can it do scp or sftp too? > > -Dave > > On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 01:10 AM, Geek wrote: >> puTTY. >> >> >> Dwight Wallbridge, >> Managing Editor, GeekMeltdown.com >> >> GeekMeltdown http://www.geekmeltdown.com >> Geek's World http://www.geeksworld.net >> Geek Blog http://www.geekblog.net/ >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dave McGuire" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:10 AM >> Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K >> >> >> | Hi folks. >> | >> | A friend just asked me where to find an SSH client for >> Windows2000. >> | Can someone point me in the right direction? >> | >> | Thanks, >> | -Dave >> | >> | -- >> | Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... >> | St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke >> | _______________________________________________ >> | GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks >> _______________________________________________ >> GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks >> >> > > -- > Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > Chris Hedemark Professional Computer Consulting & Videography Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." -Steve Wright From david at malleable.org Thu Oct 17 00:26:47 2002 From: david at malleable.org (David Selders) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:26:47 -0700 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K In-Reply-To: References: <043901c2759b$8bcdb490$3ece5218@RivenDell> Message-ID: <20021017052647.GC6993@moctezuma.malleable.org> On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 01:17:37AM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > Can it do scp or sftp too? > > -Dave > > On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 01:10 AM, Geek wrote: > >puTTY. > > > > > >Dwight Wallbridge, > >Managing Editor, GeekMeltdown.com > > > >GeekMeltdown http://www.geekmeltdown.com > >Geek's World http://www.geeksworld.net > >Geek Blog http://www.geekblog.net/ > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Dave McGuire" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:10 AM > >Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K > > > > > >| Hi folks. > >| > >| A friend just asked me where to find an SSH client for > >Windows2000. > >| Can someone point me in the right direction? > >| > >| Thanks, > >| -Dave > >| > >| -- > >| Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > >| St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > >| _______________________________________________ > >| GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > >_______________________________________________ > >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > > > > > -- > Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks checkout PuTTY and PSCP and PSFTP, all can be found at: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ -- David Selders david at malleable.org Martinez, Ca From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Oct 17 00:48:30 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:48:30 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K In-Reply-To: <20021017052647.GC6993@moctezuma.malleable.org> Message-ID: <1098182D-E194-11D6-9697-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Excellent...thanks for the pointers, folks! -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From kurt at k-huhn.com Thu Oct 17 08:06:26 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:06:26 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021017090626.72cf261e.kurt@k-huhn.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > Hi folks. > > A friend just asked me where to find an SSH client for Windows2000. > Can someone point me in the right direction? > Putty. Does SSH and all the neat port forwarding stuff too. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Thu Oct 17 08:22:03 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:22:03 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021017132203.GA7371@cs.millersville.edu> On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 01:10:02AM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > Hi folks. > > A friend just asked me where to find an SSH client for Windows2000. > Can someone point me in the right direction? Putty, putty, putty. If someone tries to convince you to use SecureCRT, kick em where it hurts. Oh, I've heard that OpenSSH is available natively also, but haven't tried it since I'm quite happy with putty. -- Joshua D. Boyd From jp at celestrion.net Thu Oct 17 08:47:10 2002 From: jp at celestrion.net (Jonathan C Patschke) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:47:10 -0500 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K In-Reply-To: <20021017132203.GA7371@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: On Thursday, Oct 17, 2002, at 08:22 US/Central, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > Oh, I've heard that OpenSSH is available natively also, but haven't > tried it since I'm quite happy with putty. It runs against Cygwin, but PuTTY is a huge win because it has full XTerm emulation, and most other Windows terminal emulators blow dog. -- Jonathan C. Patschke Celestrion Information Systems Thorndale, TX From Brian.Dunbar at plexus.com Thu Oct 17 09:24:44 2002 From: Brian.Dunbar at plexus.com (Brian Dunbar) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:24:44 -0500 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K Message-ID: <93EF56FF0BD1234E8D1C74B9813E0EA0013F2395@neen-mail-003.na.plexus.com> Hey, putty is cool. And might keep us from paying $BIGBUCKS for Exceed (since what we really want is the telnet explorer). I'd forgotten all about it, since I didn't need it at my last job. It's storing the session info in the registry. But if I keep it on a network drive, an access it from another system, my session info is lost. Is there a quick n dirty method for keeping session info in a .ini file? ~brian -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan C Patschke [mailto:jp at celestrion.net] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 8:47 AM To: geeks at sunhelp.org Subject: Re: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K On Thursday, Oct 17, 2002, at 08:22 US/Central, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > Oh, I've heard that OpenSSH is available natively also, but haven't > tried it since I'm quite happy with putty. It runs against Cygwin, but PuTTY is a huge win because it has full XTerm emulation, and most other Windows terminal emulators blow dog. -- Jonathan C. Patschke Celestrion Information Systems Thorndale, TX From Brian.Dunbar at plexus.com Thu Oct 17 09:28:39 2002 From: Brian.Dunbar at plexus.com (Brian Dunbar) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:28:39 -0500 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K Message-ID: <93EF56FF0BD1234E8D1C74B9813E0EA0013F2397@neen-mail-003.na.plexus.com> I spoke too soon, nevermind. http://www.tartarus.org/~simon/puttydoc/Chapter4.html#4.21 ~brian -----Original Message----- From: Brian Dunbar [mailto:Brian.Dunbar at plexus.com] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 9:25 AM To: geeks at sunhelp.org Subject: RE: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K Hey, putty is cool. And might keep us from paying $BIGBUCKS for Exceed (since what we really want is the telnet explorer). I'd forgotten all about it, since I didn't need it at my last job. It's storing the session info in the registry. But if I keep it on a network drive, an access it from another system, my session info is lost. Is there a quick n dirty method for keeping session info in a .ini file? ~brian -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan C Patschke [mailto:jp at celestrion.net] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 8:47 AM To: geeks at sunhelp.org Subject: Re: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K On Thursday, Oct 17, 2002, at 08:22 US/Central, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > Oh, I've heard that OpenSSH is available natively also, but haven't > tried it since I'm quite happy with putty. It runs against Cygwin, but PuTTY is a huge win because it has full XTerm emulation, and most other Windows terminal emulators blow dog. -- Jonathan C. Patschke Celestrion Information Systems Thorndale, TX From rstaab at panix.com Thu Oct 17 09:36:33 2002 From: rstaab at panix.com (Rob) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K In-Reply-To: <20021017132203.GA7371@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: > If someone tries to convince you to use SecureCRT, kick em where it > hurts. > I like SecureCRT simply because the inferface is a little cleaner. I do complain that they won't make a working scp implementation. SecureCRT also has the added benefit of being a a good terminal program for serial usage, something in short supply these days since most people suffer with Hyperterminal. - Rob From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Thu Oct 17 09:41:22 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:41:22 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K In-Reply-To: <93EF56FF0BD1234E8D1C74B9813E0EA0013F2395@neen-mail-003.na.plexus.com> References: <93EF56FF0BD1234E8D1C74B9813E0EA0013F2395@neen-mail-003.na.plexus.com> Message-ID: <20021017144122.GA9783@cs.millersville.edu> On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 09:24:44AM -0500, Brian Dunbar wrote: > It's storing the session info in the registry. But if I keep it on a > network drive, an access it from another system, my session info is lost. > Is there a quick n dirty method for keeping session info in a .ini file? Are you sure it is putting it in the registry? I'd long thought that it was storing it in C:\WINDOWS\putty.rnd, but I only assumed it, I don't know it for sure. I can't easily edit the registry here at work, so I can't search the registry. Perhaps it is time to hit the documentation. Hmm, I was wrong it does use the registry. Also, the faq says: A.1.5 Does PuTTY support storing its settings in a disk file? Not at present, although section 4.21 in the documentation gives a method of achieving the same effect. The method in 4.21 (posted after the .sig) is a hack alright, but it might work for you. -- Joshua D. Boyd 4.21 Storing configuration in a file PuTTY does not currently support storing its configuration in a file instead of the Registry. However, you can work around this with a couple of batch files. You will need a file called (say) `PUTTY.BAT' which imports the contents of a file into the Registry, then runs PuTTY, exports the contents of the Registry back into the file, and deletes the Registry entries. This can all be done using the Regedit command line options, so it's all automatic. Here is what you need in `PUTTY.BAT': @ECHO OFF regedit /s putty.reg regedit /s puttyrnd.reg start /w putty.exe regedit /e puttynew.reg HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\SimonTatham\PuTTY copy puttynew.reg putty.reg del puttynew.reg regedit /s puttydel.reg This batch file needs two auxiliary files: `PUTTYRND.REG' which sets up an initial safe location for the `PUTTY.RND' random seed file, and `PUTTYDEL.REG' which destroys everything in the Registry once it's been successfully saved back to the file. Here is `PUTTYDEL.REG': REGEDIT4 [-HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\SimonTatham\PuTTY] Here is an example `PUTTYRND.REG' file: REGEDIT4 [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\SimonTatham\PuTTY] "RandSeedFile"="a:\putty.rnd" You should replace `a:\putty.rnd' with the location where you want to store your random number data. If the aim is to carry around PuTTY and its settings on one floppy, you probably want to store it on the floppy. From jp at celestrion.net Thu Oct 17 09:48:22 2002 From: jp at celestrion.net (Jonathan C Patschke) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:48:22 -0500 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7BA61E3F-E1DF-11D6-A14F-00050231AC2D@celestrion.net> On Thursday, Oct 17, 2002, at 09:36 US/Central, Rob wrote: > I like SecureCRT simply because the inferface is a little cleaner. For values of clean that mean ugly and contorted, I guess. > SecureCRT also has the added benefit of being a a good terminal > program for serial usage, something in short supply these days > since most people suffer with Hyperterminal. I point those people at the wonky, but free TeraTerm. -- Jonathan C. Patschke Celestrion Information Systems Thorndale, TX From simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com Thu Oct 17 11:09:36 2002 From: simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:09:36 -0500 Subject: [geeks] IRIX questions Message-ID: I have a SGI Origin 200 running Irix 6.5. I'm trying to clean up the user accounts but I don't really know how IRIX is going to handle it. I'm going to set all there shell's to /bin/false (not a problem) and am also going to remove the user directories. What I'm wondering is what IRIX will do if they don't have a user directory specified. When you login w/ a shell it seem to default to the root directory. Keep in mind that I really don't have much experience w/ Irix. I've been doing Linux admin and some playing w/ the SGI as there isn't anyone else to do it. I would also like to enable Quota's for a few users (or a group, if possible). I've just been doing some installing of GNU utilities and some other cleaning and now I'm kinda stuck. If you could also send any links to good beginner Irix admin sights, that would be most helpfull. sim BTW, I just got Cygwin/X on my PC and am doing most of this via a remote Xterm. Man I like it when things play nice. :-) From jp at celestrion.net Thu Oct 17 11:48:21 2002 From: jp at celestrion.net (Jonathan C Patschke) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:48:21 -0500 Subject: [geeks] IRIX questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3EA08011-E1F0-11D6-A14F-00050231AC2D@celestrion.net> On Thursday, Oct 17, 2002, at 11:09 US/Central, Simeon Johnston wrote: > I have a SGI Origin 200 running Irix 6.5. You lucky bastard. I have an Octane, but I'm not using the gfx. Wanna trade? ;) > I'm trying to clean up the user accounts but I don't really know how > IRIX is going to handle it. I'm going to set all there shell's to > /bin/false (not a problem) and am also going to remove the user > directories. What I'm wondering is what IRIX will do if they don't > have > a user directory specified. When you login w/ a shell it seem to > default to the root directory. Well, do NOT specify / as the root directory. That will make many Bad Things happen. Specify something like /tmp/non-existent. So long as the directory does not exist, it'll be happy. > Keep in mind that I really don't have much experience w/ Irix. I've > been doing Linux admin and some playing w/ the SGI as there isn't > anyone > else to do it. Gee. That must suck to have a 64-bit SMP machine sitting there and you just -having- to maintain it. :) > I would also like to enable Quota's for a few users (or a group, if > possible). You want the edquota and quotaon commands. Their man pages are fairly descriptive. For a good overview, see the "quotas" man page. Ignore the stuff about EFS. You're almost-certainly using XFS under 6.5. > If you could also send any links to good beginner Irix admin sights, > that would be most helpfull. http://techpubs.sgi.com/ has all the documentation (books, man pages, and service guides) available, and it's searchable. It's probably all installed on your Origin anyway, but SGI already has the full-text index built, so searching doesn't take nearly as long. > BTW, I just got Cygwin/X on my PC and am doing most of this via a > remote > Xterm. > Man I like it when things play nice. :-) You got that to work? I couldn't get it to stop segfaulting on me. -- Jonathan C. Patschke Celestrion Information Systems Thorndale, TX From gleblanc at linuxweasel.com Thu Oct 17 12:02:02 2002 From: gleblanc at linuxweasel.com (Gregory Leblanc) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:02:02 -0700 Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K In-Reply-To: <7BA61E3F-E1DF-11D6-A14F-00050231AC2D@celestrion.net> References: <7BA61E3F-E1DF-11D6-A14F-00050231AC2D@celestrion.net> Message-ID: <20021017170202.GB18294@peeps.cable.rcn.com> On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 09:48:22AM -0500, Jonathan C Patschke wrote: > On Thursday, Oct 17, 2002, at 09:36 US/Central, Rob wrote: > > >I like SecureCRT simply because the inferface is a little cleaner. > > For values of clean that mean ugly and contorted, I guess. What a total Woodsian answer. I don't like it so it must suck. Grow up. Greg From simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com Thu Oct 17 12:17:22 2002 From: simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:17:22 -0500 Subject: [geeks] IRIX questions Message-ID: Another question now. I installed SSH from the freeware packages and it failed on something. I was a bit too liberal w/ the enter key and the screen cleared before I could get the error down. Basically it doesn't have the ssh user setup so it won't run. I thought it ran as root usually. So now I can't start it up and I don't remember how it was supposed to be fixed. It tells you right there during the install, "You have to do this to get ssh to startup", and I went and forgot to write it down. > > I have a SGI Origin 200 running Irix 6.5. > > You lucky bastard. I have an Octane, but I'm not using the > gfx. Wanna > trade? ;) Uh... nah. ;-) > Gee. That must suck to have a 64-bit SMP machine sitting > there and you > just -having- to maintain it. :) I wish. Only one proc installed. It's kinda a basic config. Though it still kicks the other servers around for pure data throughput. It's nice when it copies faster to the local fileserver then the external SCSI drive attached to your machine. Gives ya, whatizcalled... perspective. Ya that's it. > > BTW, I just got Cygwin/X on my PC and am doing most of this via a > > remote > > Xterm. > > Man I like it when things play nice. :-) >You got that to work? I couldn't get it to stop segfaulting on me. segfaulting? It's worked perfectly for me from the start. I'm using the newest version from Cygwin if that helps any. sim From jp at celestrion.net Thu Oct 17 12:32:14 2002 From: jp at celestrion.net (Jonathan C Patschke) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:32:14 -0500 Subject: [geeks] IRIX questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5FFA21DE-E1F6-11D6-A14F-00050231AC2D@celestrion.net> On Thursday, Oct 17, 2002, at 12:17 US/Central, Simeon Johnston wrote: > So now I can't start it up and I don't remember how it was supposed to > be fixed. It tells you right there during the install, "You have to do > this to get ssh to startup", and I went and forgot to write it down. Go into the software manager and remove it. Then reinstall it. I couldn't tell you what it's asking you to do, since I haven't used the freeware packages in over a year. Maybe it's asking you to make a symlink from some script into the /etc/rc2.d directory or asking you to install a script that starts prngd. > I wish. Only one proc installed. It's kinda a basic config. > Though it still kicks the other servers around for pure data > throughput. > It's nice when it copies faster to the local fileserver then the > external SCSI drive attached to your machine. > Gives ya, whatizcalled... perspective. Ya that's it. No doubt. Octane, Origin and Onyx2 all have tremendous throughput and make excellent database machines. XIO is a wonderful component interconnect architecture. It's a shame that the O300s are PCI instead of XIO. >> You got that to work? I couldn't get it to stop segfaulting on me. > > segfaulting? It's worked perfectly for me from the start. I'm using > the newest version from Cygwin if that helps any. It's been two or three months since I tried it. The last time I ran it, it was slow and liked to segfault on more complicated apps. XTerm and rxvt were fine, but I'd be lucky if I could get WindowMaker to come up at all without crashing the X server. It was probably just a maturity issue, since XFree hasn't been running on Cygwin for very long. -- Jonathan C. Patschke Celestrion Information Systems Thorndale, TX From vance at neurotica.com Thu Oct 17 13:15:34 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:15:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] SSH clients for Winblows2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Cygwin/OpenSSH. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > Hi folks. > > A friend just asked me where to find an SSH client for Windows2000. > Can someone point me in the right direction? > > Thanks, > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Thu Oct 17 14:12:59 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:12:59 -0400 Subject: [geeks] OO class design question Message-ID: <20021017191259.GB22489@cs.millersville.edu> Well, I'm as rapidly as I can trying to learn lots of things at once, for a variety of tasks, most of which are related to my graphics class. So, perhaps this question is answered later in one of the books I'm reading, but it didn't jump out at me from table of contents in anything. So, I have several instances that fit this pattern, but I'm just going to pick one as an example. I have a class Image. Image contains all the metadata I need about the image, like width, heighth, pixel format, etc, in addition to the image data itself. Now, there are several ways that I could get an image. I could load it from a tiff or a jpeg. I could create it from the txsynth library. I could create it using some other procedural method. I could save into the image class from the screen. So, this causes me to rethink how I get data into the image. Before I might have subclassed Image to classes like JpegImage, TiffImage, etc. But, I really don't care where the image came from once it is loaded, so it seems silly to include all the extras that JpegImage provides. Another possibility (the one I'm using at the moment is to use something like: Image * img = LoadJPG(filename); where LoadJPG is a function that returns a new Image class. It works, but it leads to duplicating mechanisms that would also be shared with LoadTIFF and LoadTGA, and it just doesn't seem like the proper OO thing to do. -- Joshua D. Boyd PS, yes I did try asking about this at school, and got asked why I was wasting my time on classes instead of just making something work quickly. From schatt at schatt.com Thu Oct 17 14:30:29 2002 From: schatt at schatt.com (Drew Schatt) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] OO class design question In-Reply-To: <20021017191259.GB22489@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: I may be wrong in this but wouldn't having a templated class work pretty well? Then you could have a common class, with the methods changing depending on the type of image? -Drew From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Thu Oct 17 14:32:05 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:32:05 -0400 Subject: [geeks] OO class design question In-Reply-To: References: <20021017191259.GB22489@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021017193205.GB23457@cs.millersville.edu> On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 12:30:29PM -0700, Drew Schatt wrote: > I may be wrong in this but wouldn't having a templated class work pretty > well? Then you could have a common class, with the methods changing > depending on the type of image? See, that's the thing. After the initial load, all images are the same, and I see no reason I should have to have different types of images just to be able to load the same type of image differently. -- Joshua D. Boyd From schatt at schatt.com Thu Oct 17 14:35:10 2002 From: schatt at schatt.com (Drew Schatt) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] OO class design question In-Reply-To: <20021017193205.GB23457@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: Maybe you could templatize the Image::Load class? -Drew On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > See, that's the thing. After the initial load, all images are the same, > and I see no reason I should have to have different types of images just > to be able to load the same type of image differently. From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Thu Oct 17 14:37:10 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:37:10 -0400 Subject: [geeks] OO class design question In-Reply-To: References: <20021017193205.GB23457@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021017193710.GA24009@cs.millersville.edu> On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 12:35:10PM -0700, Drew Schatt wrote: > Maybe you could templatize the Image::Load class? Oh. Could you say more? This sounds interesting. -- Joshua D. Boyd From schatt at schatt.com Thu Oct 17 14:44:10 2002 From: schatt at schatt.com (Drew Schatt) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] OO class design question In-Reply-To: <20021017193710.GA24009@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 12:35:10PM -0700, Drew Schatt wrote: > > Maybe you could templatize the Image::Load class? > Oh. Could you say more? This sounds interesting. What I mean is, make a template class Image, and you would only need to create specific versions of the Image::Load function, since that would be the only type specific version? It's been quite a while since I worked with C++, so you might want to look up Templates and see more info. Sorry I can't be more specific. -Drew From kchris_iii at hotmail.com Thu Oct 17 14:53:02 2002 From: kchris_iii at hotmail.com (Chris David) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:53:02 +0000 Subject: [geeks] Solaris console messages Message-ID: Hi Iam running solaris 8. Due to security reasons, i have disabled all the services (except telnet/ftp) in /etc/inetd.conf and also i have disabled sendmail,nfs.client,autofs,lp,rpc in /etc/rc2.d and nfs.server and snmpdx daemon in /etc/rc3.d directory. After doing this and when i rebooted the machine. Iam getting the following messages in console server (273) svc_tp_create :could not register prog 300598 vers 1 on udp svc_tp_create could not register prgo 300598 vers 1 on tcp svc_tp_create could not register prog 300598 vers1 onticlts ...ticotsord ....ticots uable to create (DMI2_SERVER, DMI2_SERVER_VERSION) for netpath. Iam running Solaris 8. Is this an seriosu issue? Anyone encountered the same before? Thanks for Any Help.. _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From schatt at schatt.com Thu Oct 17 14:57:37 2002 From: schatt at schatt.com (Drew Schatt) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Solaris console messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is RPC stuff. You're stilll trying to run X without the RPC daemon, aren't you? Sun's X (and possibly others) requires RPC. You'll need to add those back into /etc/inetd.conf, and you probably (if you're concerned about security) want to turn off telnet and ftp, and install/use ssh and scp instead. -Drew On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Chris David wrote: > Hi > Iam running solaris 8. Due to security reasons, i have disabled all the > services (except > telnet/ftp) in /etc/inetd.conf and also i have disabled > sendmail,nfs.client,autofs,lp,rpc in /etc/rc2.d and nfs.server and snmpdx > daemon in /etc/rc3.d directory. After doing this and when i rebooted the > machine. Iam getting the following messages in console > > server (273) svc_tp_create :could not register prog 300598 vers 1 on udp > svc_tp_create could not register prgo 300598 vers 1 on tcp > svc_tp_create could not register prog 300598 vers1 onticlts ...ticotsord > ....ticots > uable to create (DMI2_SERVER, DMI2_SERVER_VERSION) for netpath. > Iam running Solaris 8. Is this an seriosu issue? Anyone encountered the same > before? > > Thanks for Any Help.. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From Brian.Dunbar at plexus.com Thu Oct 17 16:02:11 2002 From: Brian.Dunbar at plexus.com (Brian Dunbar) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:02:11 -0500 Subject: [geeks] zoe - anyone tried it yet? Message-ID: <93EF56FF0BD1234E8D1C74B9813E0EA0013F23EB@neen-mail-003.na.plexus.com> zoe - has anyone here tried it? web site http://guests.evectors.it/zoe/ Jon Udell likes it - http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2002/10/07/udell.html Billed as "google for your mailbox" - I need something here, I don't enjoy creating endless stacks of mail dirs, archives and rules. Brian Dunbar System Administrator - Plexus brian.dunbar at plexus.com From rlonstein at pobox.com Thu Oct 17 20:25:43 2002 From: rlonstein at pobox.com (R. Lonstein) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:25:43 -0400 Subject: [geeks] zoe - anyone tried it yet? In-Reply-To: <93EF56FF0BD1234E8D1C74B9813E0EA0013F23EB@neen-mail-003.na.plexus.com> References: <93EF56FF0BD1234E8D1C74B9813E0EA0013F23EB@neen-mail-003.na.plexus.com> Message-ID: <20021018012543.GB25196@mail.lonsteins.com> On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 04:02:11PM -0500, Brian Dunbar wrote: > zoe - has anyone here tried it? > > web site http://guests.evectors.it/zoe/ > Jon Udell likes it - > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2002/10/07/udell.html > > Billed as "google for your mailbox" - I need something here, I don't enjoy > creating endless stacks of mail dirs, archives and rules. Looks interesting but if you already use fetchmail, procmail, grepmail, mutt and emacs what's the big deal? What I'd really like to see is gzigzag develop more fully. The website was hosed today, I have no idea why, but the google cache (via tinyurl): http://tinyurl.com/21xj exists. I played with an early release and thought, "damn, this could be good." - Ross From chris at chrisbyrne.com Fri Oct 18 10:49:49 2002 From: chris at chrisbyrne.com (Chris Byrne IV) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:49:49 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Im BAAAAA-aaack!! Message-ID: <200210181549.g9IFnngJ014926@chrisbyrne.com> Heya all, After about six months of ramen (actual supernoodles as they dont sell ramen here), macaroni, and lots of ham sanwhiches I am once again gainfully employed, and my domain has been restored meaning I can get email outside of hotmail and yahoo. These are all good things. The bad thing? I'm no working for ... DELL!!!! Yes I'm now one of Mikeys kids. Ah well at least its not microsquish. Actualy The job Im in is kinda cool. Im an EMEA Enterprise Storage Analyst. Which basically means I deal with european cusotmer big broken storage gear, and a little pre-sales. Mostly phone work and training really. I was originally sposed to be hired as a "Subject Matter Expert" which basically means I get to play in a lab all day with storage gear (mostly EMC and ADIC) seeing how it breaks, but then HR told them they couldnt hire any more external SME's this quarter so Im officially a storage analyst for six months and then they transfer me into the SME team. THat also comes along with a 10k raise so understandably Im anxiously awaiting that. On a personal not the girlfriend I had moved in with cheated on me so she moved out (mutual thing) but I've been doing very well on the dating... well really not dating more like hooking up with people... scene. My mom is doing very bad, several more surgeries since last you saw me, and my dad is back in prison again. Hmmm, that's the high points. So how the hell is everybody? Chris Byrne --------------------------------------- The Eyes May Be The Windows On The Soul But The Word Is The Doorway To The Mind --------------------------------------- From mattyml at bellsouth.net Fri Oct 18 11:22:25 2002 From: mattyml at bellsouth.net (Ryan) Date: 18 Oct 2002 12:22:25 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Solaris console messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1034958146.1648.6.camel@pooh> You will need to remove all RPC services from Run Level 2/3, and clean out the RPC services from inetd.conf. - Ryan On Thu, 2002-10-17 at 15:57, Drew Schatt wrote: > This is RPC stuff. You're stilll trying to run X without the RPC daemon, > aren't you? Sun's X (and possibly others) requires RPC. You'll need to > add those back into /etc/inetd.conf, and you probably (if you're concerned > about security) want to turn off telnet and ftp, and install/use ssh and > scp instead. > -Drew > On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Chris David wrote: > > > Hi > > Iam running solaris 8. Due to security reasons, i have disabled all the > > services (except > > telnet/ftp) in /etc/inetd.conf and also i have disabled > > sendmail,nfs.client,autofs,lp,rpc in /etc/rc2.d and nfs.server and snmpdx > > daemon in /etc/rc3.d directory. After doing this and when i rebooted the > > machine. Iam getting the following messages in console > > > > server (273) svc_tp_create :could not register prog 300598 vers 1 on udp > > svc_tp_create could not register prgo 300598 vers 1 on tcp > > svc_tp_create could not register prog 300598 vers1 onticlts ...ticotsord > > ....ticots > > uable to create (DMI2_SERVER, DMI2_SERVER_VERSION) for netpath. > > Iam running Solaris 8. Is this an seriosu issue? Anyone encountered the same > > before? > > > > Thanks for Any Help.. > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > > _______________________________________________ > > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From james at jdfogg.com Fri Oct 18 11:52:53 2002 From: james at jdfogg.com (James) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:52:53 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Im BAAAAA-aaack!! In-Reply-To: <200210181549.g9IFnngJ014926@chrisbyrne.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021018124930.009f32d0@mail.jdfogg.com> DUDE! Your working for Dell! Sounds like a cool gig. I know I'd enjoy it. At 04:49 PM 10/18/02 +0100, you wrote: >Heya all, > >After about six months of ramen (actual supernoodles as they dont sell >ramen here), macaroni, and lots of ham sanwhiches I am once again >gainfully employed, and my domain has been restored meaning I can get >email outside of hotmail and yahoo. > >These are all good things. > >The bad thing? I'm no working for ... DELL!!!! Yes I'm now one of >Mikeys kids. > >Ah well at least its not microsquish. > >Actualy The job Im in is kinda cool. Im an EMEA Enterprise Storage >Analyst. Which basically means I deal with european cusotmer big broken >storage gear, and a little pre-sales. Mostly phone work and training >really. > >I was originally sposed to be hired as a "Subject Matter Expert" which >basically means I get to play in a lab all day with storage gear >(mostly EMC and ADIC) seeing how it breaks, but then HR told them they >couldnt hire any more external SME's this quarter so Im officially a >storage analyst for six months and then they transfer me into the SME >team. THat also comes along with a 10k raise so understandably Im >anxiously awaiting that. > >On a personal not the girlfriend I had moved in with cheated on me so >she moved out (mutual thing) but I've been doing very well on the >dating... well really not dating more like hooking up with people... >scene. My mom is doing very bad, several more surgeries since last you >saw me, and my dad is back in prison again. > >Hmmm, that's the high points. > >So how the hell is everybody? > >Chris Byrne >--------------------------------------- >The Eyes May Be The Windows On The Soul >But The Word Is The Doorway To The Mind >--------------------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From ajwdsp at cloud9.net Fri Oct 18 11:59:00 2002 From: ajwdsp at cloud9.net (Andrew Weiss) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:59:00 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Cables? Message-ID: <00ad01c276c7$a8675930$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> What cable do I need in Bulk for making my own AUI Transceiver style cables... I looked at Blackbox for ready made cables to connect all my AUI kit to my concentrator and they average $55 a pop (ouch). I need to know if RS-232 bulk cable with x number of conductors will work, what x is, and if someone immediately knows a pinout ref URL. Otherwise I'll google gladly. Unless someone knows where to get ready made AUI cables for $5-10 a pop. I've got about 5 machines to set up and most of them will need 10-15 ft lengths. -------------------------------------- Andrew J. Weiss Field Network Engineer En Pointe Technologies aweiss at enpointe.com, ajwdsp at cloud9.net From kurt at k-huhn.com Fri Oct 18 11:58:42 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:58:42 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Im BAAAAA-aaack!! In-Reply-To: <200210181549.g9IFnngJ014926@chrisbyrne.com> References: <200210181549.g9IFnngJ014926@chrisbyrne.com> Message-ID: <20021018125842.2e57c262.kurt@k-huhn.com> "Chris Byrne IV" wrote: > After about six months of ramen (actual supernoodles as they dont sell > ramen here), macaroni, and lots of ham sanwhiches I am once again > gainfully employed, and my domain has been restored meaning I can get > email outside of hotmail and yahoo. > WooHoo!! Good to see you back among the land of the living! I was starting to wonder when we might see you around here again :) > These are all good things. > > The bad thing? I'm no working for ... DELL!!!! Yes I'm now one of > Mikeys kids. > Ah well, they're one of the better PeeCee makers out there - IMO, anyway. I personally like thier servers and workstations, when using x86-based hardware, though I unsderstand I may be in the minority. I still prefer SGI, Sun, and Apple ahrdware though... > > So how the hell is everybody? > Got laid off in April with about 30 minutes of severance pay, moved 750 miles to take a job at a pay cut - but still managed to come out on top after making 150% on my house and renting a condominium for less than my previous mortgage. I also (finally, after years of pussyfooting) managed to get my C&R FFL. I'm also back home in Ohio, where I belong. -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From ajwdsp at cloud9.net Fri Oct 18 12:02:47 2002 From: ajwdsp at cloud9.net (Andrew Weiss) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:02:47 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Im BAAAAA-aaack!! References: <200210181549.g9IFnngJ014926@chrisbyrne.com> Message-ID: <00bd01c276c8$2fcf3280$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> Super Congratulations ...a Goya^H^H^H^H Chris Byrne. :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Byrne IV" To: Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 11:49 AM Subject: [geeks] Im BAAAAA-aaack!! > Heya all, > > After about six months of ramen (actual supernoodles as they dont sell > ramen here), macaroni, and lots of ham sanwhiches I am once again > gainfully employed, .org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Oct 18 12:08:18 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:08:18 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Cables? In-Reply-To: <00ad01c276c7$a8675930$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> References: <00ad01c276c7$a8675930$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> Message-ID: <20021018170818.GU403@mrbill.net> I used 15-pin joystick cables last time I needed to do that. Bill On Fri, Oct 18, 2002 at 12:59:00PM -0400, Andrew Weiss wrote: > What cable do I need in Bulk for making my own AUI Transceiver style > cables... I looked at Blackbox for ready made cables to connect all my AUI > kit to my concentrator and they average $55 a pop (ouch). I need to know if > RS-232 bulk cable with x number of conductors will work, what x is, and if > someone immediately knows a pinout ref URL. Otherwise I'll google gladly. > Unless someone knows where to get ready made AUI cables for $5-10 a pop. > I've got about 5 machines to set up and most of them will need 10-15 ft > lengths. -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Fri Oct 18 23:29:10 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:29:10 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Cross platform sound programming Message-ID: <20021019042910.GB18552@cs.millersville.edu> Right, so I need to be able to do simple sound programming on linux and windows (basically only the ability to play music and several sound effects at once is needed). So, I tried to pitch the professor on SDL instead of Glut+libtiff+libjpeg+custom TGA&BMP&PCX code+unknown sound lib. But that was a no go, so I've been looking for sound libraries that will work with glut (which basically means not being depedent on some other gui toolkit) on both windows and linux. I thought that audiere might be a good choice, but they are screwy on linux (wierd obsession about making FLAC a requirement instead of optional, and on top of it, I can't make them compile with the libflac I have installed), despite working nicely on windows (revelation ensued when I checked out the lead programmers site and found that he uses windows and only boots dead rat when fealing adventurous). So, now I've moved on an am looking at OpenAL. The linux version( and BeOS, etc) version can only be gotten from CVS, but windows can be gotten precompiled. In the middle of trying to compile for linux right now. Lots, and I mean lots, of errors. So far not promising. Any other suggestions? PS. Here is a developing pet peave of mine. I've been trying to do as close to the sane thing as possible in this class. To that goal, I've been trying to use free libraries as much as possible rather than recoding things. But, I have been through so many bloody versions of some libraries (particularly libtiff and libjpeg) trying to find versions that will place nice together. And I haven't even gotten to trying to set up deadrat's pthreads package yet. This is really pissing me off. Half my copious amounts of time in the lab at school is spent library wrangling. -- Joshua D. Boyd From ajwdsp at cloud9.net Sat Oct 19 09:20:21 2002 From: ajwdsp at cloud9.net (Andrew Weiss) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:20:21 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Fwd: Sendmail Message-ID: Question my friend was asking. It has been a long time since I've set up sendmail.... is there an easy solution to this? Andrew Begin forwarded message: > From: Aaron > Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 10:13:58 PM America/New_York > To: ajwdsp at cloud9.net > Subject: Sendmail > > Hey, > > I've a question that maybe the geek can answer... > > Because no mail server's doing relaying anymore, I'm setting up a SMTP > server on my OSX just to send out mail from my harvard account at > home. The only issue is that I'm behind a IP Masq firewall. So some > SMTP servers actually do reverse lookup and of course it can't find > 192.168.1.2. Is there anyway I can tell sendmail that it's my "real" > IP? > > Thanks dude.. if you're too busy to look, don't worry about it. Just > thought you'd love to find out for yourself, that's all. > > Aaron. From insane at oneinsane.net Sat Oct 19 10:15:08 2002 From: insane at oneinsane.net (Ron Rosson) Date: 19 Oct 2002 08:15:08 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Fwd: Sendmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1035040508.3730.0.camel@witchblade> Suggest Postfix.. It is easier and the configs are written in plain english. ;-) -Ron On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 08:20, Andrew Weiss wrote: > Question my friend was asking. It has been a long time since I've set > up sendmail.... is there an easy solution to this? > > Andrew > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: Aaron > > Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 10:13:58 PM America/New_York > > To: ajwdsp at cloud9.net > > Subject: Sendmail > > > > Hey, > > > > I've a question that maybe the geek can answer... > > > > Because no mail server's doing relaying anymore, I'm setting up a SMTP > > server on my OSX just to send out mail from my harvard account at > > home. The only issue is that I'm behind a IP Masq firewall. So some > > SMTP servers actually do reverse lookup and of course it can't find > > 192.168.1.2. Is there anyway I can tell sendmail that it's my "real" > > IP? > > > > Thanks dude.. if you're too busy to look, don't worry about it. Just > > thought you'd love to find out for yourself, that's all. > > > > Aaron. > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... The InSaNe One rm -rf * insane at oneinsane.net and all was /dev/null and *void() ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Sat Oct 19 23:55:05 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:55:05 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SGI users looking for software Message-ID: <20021020045505.GA22001@cs.millersville.edu> http://www.sidefx.com/products/apprentice/index.html Word on the SGI newsgroups is that this includes the Irix versions. There is watermarking and resolution limitations. -- Joshua D. Boyd From kchris_iii at hotmail.com Sun Oct 20 00:08:39 2002 From: kchris_iii at hotmail.com (Chris David) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 05:08:39 +0000 Subject: [geeks] Swap Memory.. Message-ID: Hi I have planned to install Soalris 8 Production box with 8 gb internal drives and 2048mb ram. Is that i need to allocate 4 gb (2* ram) of swap space ?? Because i need my /usr /opt /var directory needs atleast 4, 1 gb each. It sun recommends to have swap less than my memory?? Thanks Chris _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Oct 20 00:17:27 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:17:27 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Swap Memory.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021020051727.GS403@mrbill.net> On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 05:08:39AM +0000, Chris David wrote: > I have planned to install Soalris 8 Production box with 8 gb internal > drives and 2048mb ram. Is that i need to allocate 4 gb (2* ram) of swap > space ?? Because i need my /usr /opt /var directory needs atleast 4, 1 gb > each. > It sun recommends to have swap less than my memory?? What we do on production servers is 2G of swap, or 2X physical RAM (but no MORE than 2G). The "swap = 2x physical RAM" is a holdover from the "old days" when disk was cheaper than memory. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Oct 20 00:22:48 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 01:22:48 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Swap Memory.. In-Reply-To: <20021020051727.GS403@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Sunday, October 20, 2002, at 01:17 AM, Bill Bradford wrote: >> I have planned to install Soalris 8 Production box with 8 gb internal >> drives and 2048mb ram. Is that i need to allocate 4 gb (2* ram) of >> swap >> space ?? Because i need my /usr /opt /var directory needs atleast 4, >> 1 gb >> each. >> It sun recommends to have swap less than my memory?? > > What we do on production servers is 2G of swap, or 2X physical RAM (but > no MORE than 2G). > > The "swap = 2x physical RAM" is a holdover from the "old days" when > disk > was cheaper than memory. It's also a holdover from a SunOS4 kernel limitation that prevented the use of main memory that wasn't "backed" by swap space...i.e., if you had 16MB of physical memory but only 8MB of swap space, you could only use 8MB of physical memory. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From shawn at synack-hosting.com Sun Oct 20 02:04:45 2002 From: shawn at synack-hosting.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: 20 Oct 2002 02:04:45 -0500 Subject: [geeks] SGI users looking for software In-Reply-To: <20021020045505.GA22001@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20021020045505.GA22001@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <1035097486.26249.3.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> Looks interesting. I wonder how much documentation it comes with. We own a seat of Houdini at work and from what I have heard, it is quite complicated and not very user friendly. Oh, I just realized it comes with Halo (their new modelling package). That is pretty cool. I have download it now. shawn On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 23:55, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > http://www.sidefx.com/products/apprentice/index.html > > Word on the SGI newsgroups is that this includes the Irix versions. > There is watermarking and resolution limitations. > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From kurt at k-huhn.com Sun Oct 20 08:13:36 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:13:36 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SGI users looking for software In-Reply-To: <1035097486.26249.3.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> References: <20021020045505.GA22001@cs.millersville.edu> <1035097486.26249.3.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> Message-ID: <20021020091336.4130acec.kurt@k-huhn.com> Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > Looks interesting. I wonder how much documentation it comes with. We > own a seat of Houdini at work and from what I have heard, it is quite > complicated and not very user friendly. That seems to be SOP for these types of packages these days. By an large, the user-friendly stuff is already inexpensive to start with, or free... > > Oh, I just realized it comes with Halo (their new modelling package). > That is pretty cool. I have download it now. > Now I'v got to try it. See how it compares to what I'm already using... -- Kurt "I remember that I've got a solid base of worms and kurt at k-huhn.com ant eggs. I puke like a hero all night long." -- Tony Bourdain From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 20 08:40:55 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 06:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] Swap Memory.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021020134055.34076.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> Swap needs should be based on *need*, not rumours... If your working set of applications will be about 2 Gigs (based on your installed memory I assume it is), then really, more than 1 gig of swap may be a waste *IMHO*. This is an emotional issue for many, but unless you know you need to be able to handle a working set of applications with up to 6 Gig of memory, I would think real hard about going above 2 gig of swap. Spreading it across devices might be a good idea too... (IIRC, the 2*RAM formula came about when 1 Gig of RAm was *RARE*) Good luck, Lionel --- Chris David wrote: > Hi > > I have planned to install Soalris 8 Production box with 8 gb > internal > drives and 2048mb ram. Is that i need to allocate 4 gb (2* ram) of > swap > space ?? Because i need my /usr /opt /var directory needs atleast 4, > 1 gb > each. > It sun recommends to have swap less than my memory?? ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From chris at yonderway.com Sun Oct 20 08:55:44 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:55:44 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Fwd: Sendmail In-Reply-To: <1035040508.3730.0.camel@witchblade> Message-ID: On Saturday, October 19, 2002, at 11:15 AM, Ron Rosson wrote: > Suggest Postfix.. It is easier and the configs are written in plain > english. ;-) +1 I've done for some clients exactly what you're asking and Postfix was very easy to set up in this fashion. Chris Hedemark Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com From woods at weird.com Sun Oct 20 12:06:04 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] Swap Memory.. In-Reply-To: <20021020134055.34076.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021020134055.34076.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021020170604.22EA7A@proven.weird.com> [ On Sunday, October 20, 2002 at 06:40:55 (-0700), Lionel Peterson wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] Swap Memory.. > > This is an emotional issue for many, but unless you know you need to be > able to handle a working set of applications with up to 6 Gig of > memory, I would think real hard about going above 2 gig of swap. It's often very difficult to predict how much swap one might need in worst case situations. Having lots of extra swap is rarely a waste given the relative sizes of the rest of your secondary storage capacities these days. When you've got hundreds of GB of filesystem space or more it's nothing to throw a couple of GB at swap. For example even on a small server with 4x4GB drives and only 320MB RAM I put 500MB of swap on each spindle. Now that I've added some much bigger RAID arrays to that machine the amount of swap seems tiny and insignificant. As it is I rarely use any more than 25% of that swap space, but this is a general purpose multi-user system and so I really like to have at least 50% more headroom for "emergencies". If you can't easily monitor your systems swap utilisation very closely (i.e. on 5 to 10-second intervals at longest) during _all_ types of system activities then you probably want at least 30%, and maybe as much as 50%-75% headroom over observed "normal" usage too. Most modern unix-like systems don't make it very easy for users and administrators to control memory usage by various applications and classes of applications and due to the many years of experience developers have had with good virtual memory systems we now have given them expectations about how easy it is for them to simply gobble up huge amounts of memory space, and on a true general purpose system many such applications these days don't run for very long so swap utilisation can spike very easily (more easily the more active users you have) and you might never know it unless you actually run out. On a more dedicated system it's often easier to measure actual usage and calculate growth, but even then various system daemons, daily processes, etc. that we all take for granted could spike usage at certain times of day and unless you can measure on very small intervals (i.e. smaller than the width of any potential spike), you'll never know unless you actually run out of swap space. There are a few placed in the various *BSD kernels now where peak utilisation of various dynamic resources is now kept track of. For example FreeBSD now keeps track of some aspects of peak mbuf usage: $ netstat -m 71/224/4096 mbufs in use (current/peak/max): 65 mbufs allocated to data 6 mbufs allocated to packet headers 64/120/1024 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) 296 Kbytes allocated to network (9% of mb_map in use) 0 requests for memory denied 0 requests for memory delayed 0 calls to protocol drain routines Unfortunately no system I know of keeps track of peak swap usage, but this has been on my todo list for NetBSD for a very long time now. > Spreading it across devices might be a good idea too... Spreading swap across devices is _always_ a really good idea, and that's regardless of what OS you're running! Even if There is one thing to consider though, especially with *BSD: If you care at all about diagnosing crashes you really must have at least as much swap on your primary drive as you have RAM. Either that or you have to dedicate a dump partition that's as big as physical RAM and make sure you've specified it carefully and exactly to your kernel. I don't know about SunOS-5, but *BSD cannot spread dumps across multiple partitions. Another thing to consider is that if you're using software RAID to try to enhance the reliability and recoverabiltiy of your system then you really have to do exactly the same for your swap partitions. In fact mirroring your swap partitions is probably even MUCH more important than mirroring your root drive (assuming you have a relatively quiescent root filesystem, as you should, at least with a correctly configured *BSD). -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Sun Oct 20 22:44:02 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 23:44:02 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SGI users looking for software In-Reply-To: <20021020091336.4130acec.kurt@k-huhn.com> References: <20021020045505.GA22001@cs.millersville.edu> <1035097486.26249.3.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> <20021020091336.4130acec.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <20021021034402.GD430@cs.millersville.edu> On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 09:13:36AM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > > > Looks interesting. I wonder how much documentation it comes with. We > > own a seat of Houdini at work and from what I have heard, it is quite > > complicated and not very user friendly. > > That seems to be SOP for these types of packages these days. By an > large, the user-friendly stuff is already inexpensive to start with, or > free... It's not about user friendly versus non-userfriendly. It is about choosing who your users are, then being friendly to them. For the most part, any such application is going to require significant commitment to learning them, and I don't see any good way around having such requirements. Granted, such requirements are what everyone needs. Others need simple. And for them there are other programs, where one of the greatest features is they cut out what is unlikely to be needed, or make it a seperate program (re, the bryce/poser suit). -- Joshua D. Boyd From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Sun Oct 20 22:50:18 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 23:50:18 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SGI users looking for software In-Reply-To: <1035097486.26249.3.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> References: <20021020045505.GA22001@cs.millersville.edu> <1035097486.26249.3.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> Message-ID: <20021021035018.GF430@cs.millersville.edu> On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 02:04:45AM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > Looks interesting. I wonder how much documentation it comes with. We own > a seat of Houdini at work and from what I have heard, it is quite > complicated and not very user friendly. Reportedly it comes with quite a bit, but as you've downloaded, maybe you could verify. >From what I hear, Houdini is really awesome, but you have to be able to think very procedurally, even for character animation. I'd love to try the software. I wonder if they also have a linux version of the free package. -- Joshua D. Boyd From ekholm at ekholm.org Sun Oct 20 22:53:44 2002 From: ekholm at ekholm.org (Mike Ekholm) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:53:44 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Swap Memory.. In-Reply-To: <20021020051727.GS403@mrbill.net> References: <20021020051727.GS403@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20021021035344.GA4277@ekholm.org> On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 12:17:27AM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > > What we do on production servers is 2G of swap, or 2X physical RAM (but > no MORE than 2G). I have seen this rule in several places, and it seems to work good these days. 1. I do not think the ram * 2 = swap rule was designed for servers with 36gb of ram (but then again, that could be why the v880 has 6 72gb drives) 2. Memory is cheep enough so you should not be using any of that 72gb of swap. -Mike Ekholm -- UNIX Sys Admin | ekholm at ekholm.org | http://www.ekholm.org | IRC: Nalez ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's hard to find people in society who can administer UNIX and professionally carry a weapon." - Jim Williams, former FBI Computer Intrusion Squad agent From shawn at synack-hosting.com Sun Oct 20 22:47:39 2002 From: shawn at synack-hosting.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: 20 Oct 2002 22:47:39 -0500 Subject: [geeks] SGI users looking for software In-Reply-To: <20021021035018.GF430@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20021020045505.GA22001@cs.millersville.edu> <1035097486.26249.3.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> <20021021035018.GF430@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <1035172060.26249.145.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> Yup, But it is for 'Linux 6' or 'Linux 7'. I haven't tried it on Gentoo yet. They also have a Solaris version that I might try on my U30. shawn On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 22:50, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 02:04:45AM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > > Looks interesting. I wonder how much documentation it comes with. We own > > a seat of Houdini at work and from what I have heard, it is quite > > complicated and not very user friendly. > > Reportedly it comes with quite a bit, but as you've downloaded, maybe > you could verify. > > >From what I hear, Houdini is really awesome, but you have to be able to > think very procedurally, even for character animation. > > I'd love to try the software. I wonder if they also have a linux > version of the free package. > > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From shawn at synack-hosting.com Sun Oct 20 22:48:25 2002 From: shawn at synack-hosting.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: 20 Oct 2002 22:48:25 -0500 Subject: [geeks] SGI users looking for software In-Reply-To: <20021021034402.GD430@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20021020045505.GA22001@cs.millersville.edu> <1035097486.26249.3.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> <20021020091336.4130acec.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021021034402.GD430@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <1035172105.26694.147.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> I downloaded it (and half their site, bad wget options). I haven't taken a look yet. Maybe tomorrow night. shawn On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 22:44, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 09:13:36AM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > > > > > Looks interesting. I wonder how much documentation it comes with. We > > > own a seat of Houdini at work and from what I have heard, it is quite > > > complicated and not very user friendly. > > > > That seems to be SOP for these types of packages these days. By an > > large, the user-friendly stuff is already inexpensive to start with, or > > free... > > It's not about user friendly versus non-userfriendly. It is about > choosing who your users are, then being friendly to them. For the most > part, any such application is going to require significant commitment to > learning them, and I don't see any good way around having such > requirements. Granted, such requirements are what everyone needs. > Others need simple. And for them there are other programs, where one of > the greatest features is they cut out what is unlikely to be needed, or > make it a seperate program (re, the bryce/poser suit). > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Sun Oct 20 23:01:16 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 00:01:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SGI users looking for software In-Reply-To: <1035172060.26249.145.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> References: <20021020045505.GA22001@cs.millersville.edu> <1035097486.26249.3.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> <20021021035018.GF430@cs.millersville.edu> <1035172060.26249.145.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> Message-ID: <20021021040116.GA2169@cs.millersville.edu> On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 10:47:39PM -0500, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > Yup, But it is for 'Linux 6' or 'Linux 7'. I haven't tried it on Gentoo > yet. Ouch. Probably won't be fun to install on debian then. > They also have a Solaris version that I might try on my U30. Cool. I don't really have any recent Solaris machines though. -- Joshua D. Boyd From chris at yonderway.com Sun Oct 20 23:24:52 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 00:24:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SGI users looking for software In-Reply-To: <1035172060.26249.145.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> Message-ID: <0B24940A-E4AD-11D6-A608-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> On Sunday, October 20, 2002, at 11:47 PM, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > Yup, But it is for 'Linux 6' or 'Linux 7'. I haven't tried it on Gentoo > yet. ?? Linux is currently at 2.4 Chris Hedemark Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Sun Oct 20 23:26:22 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 00:26:22 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SGI users looking for software In-Reply-To: <0B24940A-E4AD-11D6-A608-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> References: <1035172060.26249.145.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> <0B24940A-E4AD-11D6-A608-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> Message-ID: <20021021042622.GB2169@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 12:24:52AM -0400, Chris Hedemark wrote: > On Sunday, October 20, 2002, at 11:47 PM, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > > >Yup, But it is for 'Linux 6' or 'Linux 7'. I haven't tried it on Gentoo > >yet. > > ?? > > Linux is currently at 2.4 They presumably mean Redhat, despite what they say. -- Joshua D. Boyd From shawn at synack-hosting.com Sun Oct 20 23:36:31 2002 From: shawn at synack-hosting.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: 20 Oct 2002 23:36:31 -0500 Subject: [geeks] SGI users looking for software In-Reply-To: <0B24940A-E4AD-11D6-A608-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> References: <0B24940A-E4AD-11D6-A608-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> Message-ID: <1035174992.26243.150.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> I know. I just pointed it out because it was funny. You would think that after porting your application to Linux, you would know that Linux != RedHat. But that's just the marketing department. shawn On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 23:24, Chris Hedemark wrote: > On Sunday, October 20, 2002, at 11:47 PM, Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > > > Yup, But it is for 'Linux 6' or 'Linux 7'. I haven't tried it on Gentoo > > yet. > > ?? > > Linux is currently at 2.4 > > Chris Hedemark > Hillsborough, NC > http://yonderway.com > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From brt at g.haggve.se Mon Oct 21 03:24:46 2002 From: brt at g.haggve.se (Bjorn Ramqvist) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:24:46 +0200 Subject: [geeks] Swap Memory.. References: Message-ID: <3DB3B9CE.CFE90D2A@g.haggve.se> Dave McGuire wrote: > > > The "swap = 2x physical RAM" is a holdover from the "old days" when > > disk > > was cheaper than memory. > > It's also a holdover from a SunOS4 kernel limitation that prevented > the use of main memory that wasn't "backed" by swap space...i.e., if > you had 16MB of physical memory but only 8MB of swap space, you could > only use 8MB of physical memory. Man, I've had this discussion with some HP-techsupport when I got some bizarre memory-issues on one of our HP9000-systems. Heh. Same thing there, you can't use memory (for non-kernel procs) more than you have swapspace backup up for. That SUCKS. /Bjorn From chris at chrisbyrne.com Mon Oct 21 04:29:50 2002 From: chris at chrisbyrne.com (Chris Byrne IV) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:29:50 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Im BAAAAA-aaack!! Message-ID: <200210210929.g9L9ToRr007514@chrisbyrne.com> > DUDE! Your working for Dell! > Sounds like a cool gig. I know I'd enjoy it. > Well thus far it seems to be OK. Basically I'm glorified tech support which is a job I could do in my sleep... actually have done in my sleep now that I think about it. The people I work with are cool, the benefits are great, the money is shit etc... etc... Basically all the joys of being employee number 124907 in a multinational corporation. The first three weeks after I was hired I literally did nothing but sit around, listen in on phone calls and surf the CBT/WBT. In the fourth week I actually got a desk, a pc, and a phone. THat wasnt the plan BTW, that's jsut how long it took them to do anything. I finally got my badge a few days ago. But now that Im actually working things are looking up. And hell, friday I actually start getting paid which is always a good thing. From chris at chrisbyrne.com Mon Oct 21 05:36:35 2002 From: chris at chrisbyrne.com (Chris Byrne IV) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:36:35 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Im BAAAAA-aaack!! Message-ID: <200210211036.g9LAaZd6012532@chrisbyrne.com> > WooHoo!! Good to see you back among the land of the living! I was starting > to wonder when we might see you around here again :) > Glad to be back. Its going to take me three to six months to dig out of the hole I've slipped into over the last year, but Im looking forward to not having to dig upwards. > Ah well, they're one of the better PeeCee makers out there - IMO, >anyway. I > personally like thier servers and workstations, when using x86-based > hardware, though I unsderstand I may be in the minority. I still prefer > SGI, Sun, and Apple ahrdware though... > I agree with all those point. Actually they're pretty much the only BIG pc maker left who I'd touch with a ten foot pole at the moment. I'd never buy one for my personal use but for a business they're great machines, and some of their mid range and high end servers actually kick ass > > Got laid off in April with about 30 minutes of severance pay, moved >750 > miles to take a job at a pay cut - but still managed to come out on >top > after making 150% on my house and renting a condominium for less than >my > previous mortgage. I also (finally, after years of pussyfooting) managed to > get my C&R FFL. I'm also back home in Ohio, where I belong. So I guess, I'm sorry that sucks, and WOOHOO!!! respectivley Sounds like youve bounced back pretty well From kurt at k-huhn.com Mon Oct 21 07:52:51 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:52:51 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SGI users looking for software In-Reply-To: <20021021034402.GD430@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20021020045505.GA22001@cs.millersville.edu> <1035097486.26249.3.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> <20021020091336.4130acec.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021021034402.GD430@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021021085251.78e1c97e.kurt@k-huhn.com> Joshua D Boyd wrote: > > It's not about user friendly versus non-userfriendly. It is about > choosing who your users are, then being friendly to them. For the most > part, any such application is going to require significant commitment to > learning them, and I don't see any good way around having such > requirements. Granted, such requirements are what everyone needs. > Others need simple. And for them there are other programs, where one of > the greatest features is they cut out what is unlikely to be needed, or > make it a seperate program (re, the bryce/poser suit). > I respectfully disagree. Friendliness is not a measure of how useful a piece of software is, it's a measure of how easy it is to learn and become adept at. Lightwave 5.6, for example, is not friendly. BrylCAD is downright hostile. On the other end of the spectrum, Wings is very friendly. Rhino practically caters to every whim. Now, you may have a point about stripping out unneeded features - but that has nothing to do with freindliness, it only removes features that aren't necessary to the target audience. One could coherently argue that BrylCAD and Rhino are targeted at the same audience, but there's a huge difference in the friendlyiness between the two. -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From bryanf at samurai.com Mon Oct 21 08:40:02 2002 From: bryanf at samurai.com (Bryan Fullerton) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:40:02 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Swap Memory.. In-Reply-To: <3DB3B9CE.CFE90D2A@g.haggve.se> Message-ID: <99DD10BA-E4FA-11D6-87D8-000393013B04@samurai.com> On Monday, October 21, 2002, at 04:24 AM, Bjorn Ramqvist wrote: > Man, I've had this discussion with some HP-techsupport when I got some > bizarre memory-issues on one of our HP9000-systems. Heh. Same thing > there, you can't use memory (for non-kernel procs) more than you have > swapspace backup up for. That SUCKS. Um, is that HP/UX 10 or HP/UX 11/11i? Bryan From brt at g.haggve.se Mon Oct 21 08:46:24 2002 From: brt at g.haggve.se (Bjorn Ramqvist) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:46:24 +0200 Subject: [geeks] Swap Memory.. References: <99DD10BA-E4FA-11D6-87D8-000393013B04@samurai.com> Message-ID: <3DB40530.9E5B93C3@g.haggve.se> Bryan Fullerton wrote: > > > Man, I've had this discussion with some HP-techsupport when I got some > > bizarre memory-issues on one of our HP9000-systems. Heh. Same thing > > there, you can't use memory (for non-kernel procs) more than you have > > swapspace backup up for. That SUCKS. > > Um, is that HP/UX 10 or HP/UX 11/11i? It's HP/UX 10.20. /Bjorn From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Mon Oct 21 09:30:16 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:30:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] USB Human Interface Device Message-ID: <20021021143016.GA24234@cs.millersville.edu> I have a joystick that shows up as a USB Human Interface Device. This raises two questions. First, what are the chances of it working at all under linux, and second, what are the chances of getting the force feedback support working under linux? I currently have it at a windows machine, but I'm not going to even bother taking it home if my only programming option is DirectX. -- Joshua D. Boyd From caleb at webninja.com Mon Oct 21 09:36:08 2002 From: caleb at webninja.com (Caleb Shay) Date: 21 Oct 2002 10:36:08 -0400 Subject: [geeks] USB Human Interface Device In-Reply-To: <20021021143016.GA24234@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20021021143016.GA24234@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <1035210974.10816.1.camel@Gentoo.webninja.com> I've got a couple of USB HID joysticks that work fine under Linux (just include Input support, USB support, Input device support, and HID support in your kernel). I don't know about the force feedback, I don't have any of those. Caleb Shay On Mon, 2002-10-21 at 10:30, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > I have a joystick that shows up as a USB Human Interface Device. This > raises two questions. First, what are the chances of it working at all > under linux, and second, what are the chances of getting the force > feedback support working under linux? > > I currently have it at a windows machine, but I'm not going to even > bother taking it home if my only programming option is DirectX. > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- [demime 0.99d.1 removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Mon Oct 21 09:54:26 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:54:26 -0400 Subject: [geeks] USB Human Interface Device In-Reply-To: <1035210974.10816.1.camel@Gentoo.webninja.com> References: <20021021143016.GA24234@cs.millersville.edu> <1035210974.10816.1.camel@Gentoo.webninja.com> Message-ID: <20021021145426.GB24234@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 10:36:08AM -0400, Caleb Shay wrote: > I've got a couple of USB HID joysticks that work fine under Linux (just > include Input support, USB support, Input device support, and HID > support in your kernel). I don't know about the force feedback, I don't > have any of those. Well programming it under windows apparently requires DirectX8. Period. And there is no way to install an SDK that is a 175meg download when my storage space consists of 100 megs (a zip disk) + 20 megs (network XP account). -- Joshua D. Boyd From caleb at webninja.com Mon Oct 21 10:02:09 2002 From: caleb at webninja.com (Caleb Shay) Date: 21 Oct 2002 11:02:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] USB Human Interface Device In-Reply-To: <20021021145426.GB24234@cs.millersville.edu> References: <20021021143016.GA24234@cs.millersville.edu> <1035210974.10816.1.camel@Gentoo.webninja.com> <20021021145426.GB24234@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <1035212529.10794.8.camel@Gentoo.webninja.com> I don't know what the state of force-feedback is under linux, it's never interested me. However, I do know that HID Joysticks I just plug them in and they work. Assuming you are using a 2.4 kernel and devfs it will just show up under /dev/input/js0. Use your API of choice. The SDL joystick/input stuff is very easy, and is what I use, but if you want to do straight reading from the device, feel free :) caleb at Chinstrap caleb $ dmesg | grep Joy input1: USB HID v1.10 Joystick [Logitech WingMan Action Pad] on usb1:4.0 Caleb Shay On Mon, 2002-10-21 at 10:54, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 10:36:08AM -0400, Caleb Shay wrote: > > I've got a couple of USB HID joysticks that work fine under Linux (just > > include Input support, USB support, Input device support, and HID > > support in your kernel). I don't know about the force feedback, I don't > > have any of those. > > Well programming it under windows apparently requires DirectX8. Period. > > And there is no way to install an SDK that is a 175meg download when my > storage space consists of 100 megs (a zip disk) + 20 megs (network XP > account). > > -- > Joshua D. Boyd > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- [demime 0.99d.1 removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From bhutin at yahoo.fr Mon Oct 21 11:44:01 2002 From: bhutin at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?Bertrand=20HUTIN?=) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:44:01 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [geeks] Re: 1. Cables? (Andrew Weiss) In-Reply-To: <20021018170002.19309.55001.Mailman@ohno.mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20021021164401.11724.qmail@web40810.mail.yahoo.com> You can try flat cable, with snap-in 15 pins connectors, it will works for short lengths. > 1. Cables? (Andrew Weiss) > > ATTACHMENT part 3.1 message/rfc822 > De: "Andrew Weiss" > @: > Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:59:00 -0400 > Objet: [geeks] Cables? > > What cable do I need in Bulk for making my own AUI Transceiver style > cables... I looked at Blackbox for ready made cables to connect all > my AUI > kit to my concentrator and they average $55 a pop (ouch). I need to > know if > RS-232 bulk cable with x number of conductors will work, what x is, > and if > someone immediately knows a pinout ref URL. Otherwise I'll google > gladly. > Unless someone knows where to get ready made AUI cables for $5-10 a > pop. > I've got about 5 machines to set up and most of them will need 10-15 > ft > lengths. > > -------------------------------------- > Andrew J. Weiss > Field Network Engineer > En Pointe Technologies > aweiss at enpointe.com, ajwdsp at cloud9.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > geeks mailing list > geeks at sunhelp.org > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From ajwdsp at cloud9.net Mon Oct 21 15:04:50 2002 From: ajwdsp at cloud9.net (Andrew Weiss) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:04:50 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Thoughts re: PCI --> AGP upgrades Message-ID: <006701c2793d$1ffa0480$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> The Powermac G3 Blue and White computer that I have is all PCI... it has 3 64 bit 33Mhz PCI slots and one 32 bit 66Mhz dedicated graphics PCI slot. It occured to me while doing my Apple Certification training and reviewing a Powermac G4 Cube take-apart that the AGP riser card for the Powermac G4 cube fits into a PCI slot. What would it take theoretically to re-engineer a bus extender/riser into a blue and white for using AGP cards. I'm assuming there would be almost no benefit speed-wise due to the non-updated Open Firmware since AGP is a specialized subset of PCI. It would, however, assuming it worked allow one to use an AGP GeForce 2MX from a Cube in a Blue & White... or perhaps any GeForce... i.e. 2MX, 3, 4MX, and 4 Ti. Thoughts? -------------------------------------- Andrew J. Weiss Field Network Engineer En Pointe Technologies aweiss at enpointe.com, ajwdsp at cloud9.net From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Oct 21 16:44:17 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:44:17 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Thoughts re: PCI --> AGP upgrades In-Reply-To: <006701c2793d$1ffa0480$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> References: <006701c2793d$1ffa0480$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> Message-ID: <20021021214417.GJ403@mrbill.net> On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 04:04:50PM -0400, Andrew Weiss wrote: > The Powermac G3 Blue and White computer that I have is all PCI... it has 3 > 64 bit 33Mhz PCI slots and one 32 bit 66Mhz dedicated graphics PCI slot. It > occured to me while doing my Apple Certification training and reviewing a > Powermac G4 Cube take-apart that the AGP riser card for the Powermac G4 cube > fits into a PCI slot. What would it take theoretically to re-engineer a bus > extender/riser into a blue and white for using AGP cards. I'm assuming > there would be almost no benefit speed-wise due to the non-updated Open > Firmware since AGP is a specialized subset of PCI. It would, however, > assuming it worked allow one to use an AGP GeForce 2MX from a Cube in a Blue > & White... or perhaps any GeForce... i.e. 2MX, 3, 4MX, and 4 Ti. That riser card isnt pci, its just re-worked AGP (so it can fit). Would be easier to just slap a PCI Radeon into that blue and white and enable QE on that (there's hacks to do it; I did it on mine). One of the reasons QE isnt enabled on PCI by default is lack of bandwidth, and if you do a lot of graphics, you'll throttle the bus. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From ajwdsp at cloud9.net Mon Oct 21 17:55:47 2002 From: ajwdsp at cloud9.net (Andrew Weiss) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:55:47 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Thoughts re: PCI --> AGP upgrades References: <006701c2793d$1ffa0480$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> <20021021214417.GJ403@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <002d01c27954$ff4dd5a0$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> The xServe also contains a half-length PCI slot that can contain an AGP card via a special adapter. (the ATI Radeon 64 CTO option) The slot normally comes with a second Gig E adapter. So I think something is going on. They say that AGP is merely a special type of PCI slot... I forget the exact additional details that make it special... might be power requirements in addition to bandwidth. Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] Thoughts re: PCI --> AGP upgrades > > That riser card isnt pci, its just re-worked AGP (so it can fit). Would > be easier to just slap a PCI Radeon into that blue and white and enable QE > on that (there's hacks to do it; I did it on mine). > > One of the reasons QE isnt enabled on PCI by default is lack of > bandwidth, and if you do a lot of graphics, you'll throttle the bus. > > Bill > > -- > bill bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > austin, texas > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From wstan at xs4all.nl Tue Oct 22 02:18:33 2002 From: wstan at xs4all.nl (William S.) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:18:33 +0200 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <20021022071833.GA74847@xs4all.nl> I really don't get it. At what point in time did "D J's" become considered as celebrities and artists. Maybe it's just me, but I find it very difficult to attribute any sort of credit to a person who puts a record on a turntable and turns the volume up,or does other simple manipulations to it. I mean... it is not their record. They are just playing it. Yet, I see bulliten boards all around the city promoting dances with DJ , DJ . (Note the use of "DJ" preceding their name as if it is an academic (earned) title like "Dr.".) There is a recent movie that showed here with a DJ as a star. Apparently, they make "big bucks". They appear on MTV sometimes (Okay, maybe this doesn't surprise me given the type of programming seen there.) I think I could go on a nd on with this "injustice" or distortion of "values". (Kinda like the other thing that irks me when "sports 'celebrities'" are referred to as "heroes" ...I won't go there with this post.) Is this a sign of me being a grumpy-old-man? I am not sure, I think even when I was a young teen I would have been put off by it. Other "professions" that I think require _more_talent than a DJ: elevator operator (not sure if they still exist) - person who spends all day in the elevator, opening the doors; closing them; moving it from one floor to the next. Gas station attendant - turning the pump on or off and maybe selling cigarettes or carbonated beverages. Bicycle messenger - riding bike through the city delivering packages and dodging around traffic. (Actually, I really do in a way think these people are cool and their job is. Ever watch them? It is rather "Mad Max-like" what they do. Other "professions" requiring __less__ talent than a DJ. * I can't think of one. * So what is your opinion? -- Bill Amsterdam, NL From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Oct 22 02:33:13 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 03:33:13 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021022071833.GA74847@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <85FA6140-E590-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 03:18 AM, William S. wrote: > I really don't get it. At what point in time > did "D J's" become considered as celebrities > and artists. > > Maybe it's just me, but I find it very difficult to > attribute any sort of credit to a person who > puts a record on a turntable and turns the > volume up,or does other simple manipulations > to it. I mean... it is not their record. > They are just playing it. .... [good rant snipped] I stand in agreement...I have a big problem with this as well. I think there's a *little* skill involved, with stuff like beat matching, "reading" the crowd (to see what sort of mood they're in) to select an appropriate piece of music for the moment, etc...But the whole DJ glorification thing is just plain silly to me. There are a couple of cases in which these DJs are the also actual musicians, and often spin their own stuff (John Digweed comes to mind) but these folks seem to be the very rare exception to the rule. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From brt at g.haggve.se Tue Oct 22 02:38:42 2002 From: brt at g.haggve.se (Bjorn Ramqvist) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:38:42 +0200 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <20021022071833.GA74847@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3DB50082.1D2FD0C0@g.haggve.se> "William S." wrote: > > I really don't get it. At what point in time > did "D J's" become considered as celebrities > and artists. > > Maybe it's just me, but I find it very difficult to > attribute any sort of credit to a person who > puts a record on a turntable and turns the > volume up,or does other simple manipulations > to it. I mean... it is not their record. > They are just playing it. > So what is your opinion? Well, I have to agree with you, to a certain point. A friend of mine is a DJ and plays $good_music. I think that's what separates them apart. A DJ has multiple challenges upon him when he faces a dance-hungry crowd. He has absolutely NO IDEA what they like, not counting all the drunk jerks that comes up on stage and want to hear "that lovely song". (You can be sure that $drunk_bastard wants to hear Elvis or AC/DC at a trance party!) Apart from taking the temperature of the crowd, you have to use light and smoke f/x (if needed) at the same time as you're trying to sync bpm's from the other CD/LP to mix it smoothly into the other, without wasting too much of the tune. Heck, it's cause of that we see remixes like "extended version" etc etc. You, as a DJ, is often only interested in the middle-part, to keep the pace up on the crowd. I've done some tryouts on DJing and failed quite miserably. It's HARD. :-) One thing that does worry me is the fact that people think that $DJ_guy actually has MADE that record. No freakin' way! All he does, and is good at, is to play right type of music at the right time, and with almost invisible cuts between'em. That's the art of DJ'ing. /Bjorn From wmcdonald at ntlworld.com Tue Oct 22 02:35:42 2002 From: wmcdonald at ntlworld.com (Will Mc Donald) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:35:42 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <20021022071833.GA74847@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <00cc01c2799d$eb1bf6e0$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> From: "William S." > I really don't get it. At what point in time > did "D J's" become considered as celebrities > and artists. Sometime in the mid-ninties I'd say. When dance music became more predominant. > Is this a sign of me being a grumpy-old-man? Yes. :) I believe "nyeeehhhhh" is the appropraiate noise to make whilst sneering at the young people. You can count me in on that too. > I am not sure, I think even when I was a young teen I would have > been put off by it. Depends on your character really. If (as is likely given your being on this list) you were more of an idividualist than the norm when you were young then there's a good chance you might dismiss the DJ phenomenon out of hand. On the other hand, most teenagers don't want to stand out from all their peers. FWIW there's a bit of a backlash in the UK press against superclubs and stupidly overpaid DJs. > Other "professions" requiring __less__ talent than a DJ. > > * I can't think of one. * Unix sysadmin? Sitting scratching your arse all day waiting for things to break? ;) Will. From chris at chrisbyrne.com Tue Oct 22 02:50:53 2002 From: chris at chrisbyrne.com (Chris Byrne IV) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:50:53 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <200210220750.g9M7oron024753@chrisbyrne.com> Bill, were you watching Kevin & Perry Go Large on Sky last night? > I really don't get it. At what point in time > did "D J's" become considered as celebrities > and artists. Actually there are a VERY VERY few DJ's and/or DJ types who I would consider artists. Carl Cox, Conrad, the entirelty of what was Massive Attack etc... But for the msot part, they're just DJ's From dave at cca.org Tue Oct 22 03:41:26 2002 From: dave at cca.org (dave at cca.org) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 04:41:26 EDT Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <20021022071833.GA74847@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <02422044126.dave.20816@cca.org> wstan at xs4all.nl writes: >I really don't get it. At what point in time >did "D J's" become considered as celebrities >and artists. >Maybe it's just me, but I find it very difficult to >attribute any sort of credit to a person who >puts a record on a turntable and turns the >volume up,or does other simple manipulations >to it. I mean... it is not their record. >They are just playing it. The "artistic" DJs, for want of a better word, are making music on the fly using samples off vinyl. That is difficult. The vast majority of people calling themselves DJ's don't do that. Most of the famous ones are simply famous for being famous, like people in Hollywood. :-0 It's not a musical form I particularly like, but I'll give them credit for blurring the line between playback and creation. I did once see a hip-hop DJ performing with a live jazz drummer. That was killer. ------ David Fischer ------- dave at cca.org ------- http://www.cca.org ------ ----------- When Heaven is full, the dead shall walk the earth. ----------- From kurt at k-huhn.com Tue Oct 22 08:31:00 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:31:00 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021022071833.GA74847@xs4all.nl> References: <20021022071833.GA74847@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20021022093100.56728a27.kurt@k-huhn.com> "William S." wrote: > I really don't get it. At what point in time > did "D J's" become considered as celebrities > and artists. I can only trace it back to about 3 years ago. 1998 or 1999. > > Maybe it's just me, but I find it very difficult to > attribute any sort of credit to a person who > puts a record on a turntable and turns the > volume up,or does other simple manipulations > to it. I mean... it is not their record. > They are just playing it. > > So what is your opinion? > I agree. There are very few "DJs" that have any real talent - Carl Cox, Paul Okenfold, and a couple other come to mind. However, these guys are actually known to *make* the music before spinning it. My sister-in-law is a "DJ" at a couple clubs in Rhode Island and Massachussetts. The hardest part about it is finding the right music for the crowd, and matching BPMs from one song to the next. My wife filled in for her once, she said it was "the easiest $250 she ever made" and she was only actually "spinning" for about 3.5 hours. Either that's grossly overpaid, or I'm in the wrong line of work... -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From james at jdfogg.com Tue Oct 22 08:41:52 2002 From: james at jdfogg.com (James) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:41:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021022071833.GA74847@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021022093517.009f15c0@mail.jdfogg.com> At 09:18 AM 10/22/02 +0200, you wrote: >I really don't get it. At what point in time >did "D J's" become considered as celebrities >and artists. > >Maybe it's just me, but I find it very difficult to >attribute any sort of credit to a person who >puts a record on a turntable and turns the >volume up,or does other simple manipulations >to it. I mean... it is not their record. >They are just playing it. I would agree that DJ's are usually the bottom of the barrel in skills and livestyle. They are also convinced of their importance in your life. I would, however, make one exception: The DJ's of WBCN in Boston during the 70's and 80's. Charles Laquidara (spelling?), The Big Mattress show, Dwayne Glasscock (an alter ego), the whole crew. They were a freaking riot and they were cool. They also really understood rock and roll and THEY developed the playlists. One clue that they were great was that many bands list them in the credits on albums and some of the crew are now producers for indy labels. Now, WBCN is a Clear Channel Clusterfug and they booted the old guard. They even don't bother with music for morning drive, its Howard Stern (yuch). From chris at chrisbyrne.com Tue Oct 22 09:20:11 2002 From: chris at chrisbyrne.com (Chris Byrne IV) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:20:11 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <200210221420.g9MEKBDj027358@chrisbyrne.com> > I would, however, make one exception: The DJ's of WBCN in Boston >during the 70's and 80's. As a guy growing up in Bsoton in the 80's I've got to agree. Charles Laquedera (not his real name) was a great DJ. As were a bunch of the 80s crew from BCN, FNX, CGY, ZLX, and a couple of the really obscure college stations. Unfortunately Charles is a pedophile. He is currently on trial for molesting a 12 year old boy. I used to know Jimmy Jay, Brooks Whelen, Maritn Fine, and a bunch of other Boston music scene producers, program directors dj's etc... A lot of really cool people used to work there. Not anymore. Eveyrones either out of the business, moved markets, or crushed by the effort of resisting the utter shit they have to play. And radio in Boston has gone to complete shit. BCN and ZLX just dont exist anymore (as far as Im concerned), FNX changed formats, and CGY lost its funding (it was a college station with semi-private funding). Radio in Ireland is, in a word, shite. Utter shite Perhaps, Camel Shite But anyway some kind of vile, foul smelling shite Chris Byrne --------------------------------------- The Eyes May Be The Windows On The Soul But The Word Is The Doorway To The Mind --------------------------------------- From sjh at waroffice.net Tue Oct 22 10:03:45 2002 From: sjh at waroffice.net (Steven Hill) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:03:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <200210220750.g9M7oron024753@chrisbyrne.com> Message-ID: > > I really don't get it. At what point in time > > did "D J's" become considered as celebrities > > and artists. > > Actually there are a VERY VERY few DJ's and/or DJ types who I would > consider artists. Carl Cox, Conrad, the entirelty of what was Massive > Attack etc... Paul Van Dyk (nuff said) Pete Tong (owns ffrr) there are others too... Those two are probably my all time faves. -- Steven Hill This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. From sjh at waroffice.net Tue Oct 22 10:04:28 2002 From: sjh at waroffice.net (Steven Hill) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:04:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021022093100.56728a27.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: > I can only trace it back to about 3 years ago. 1998 or 1999. Boy George, Ministry of Sound, London. 1995 -- Steven Hill This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. From tgallaway at comcast.net Tue Oct 22 10:04:43 2002 From: tgallaway at comcast.net (Thomas Gallaway (wireless)) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:04:43 -0700 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021022071833.GA74847@xs4all.nl> References: <20021022071833.GA74847@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <1035299217.215F6A82@w5.dngr.org> Well I spin records since over 8 Years and trust me there is more than just putting the record on and put up the volume. There is WAY more stuff than that. Not everybody can spin and you know what lots of good dj's spin their own music. Just look at d&b artists which some spin 50% of thwe night their own records. Also called Dubplates. I personally don't spin a lot own shit but made it a art to spin stuff interacting with the audience. This is an art also. Crowd controll... But hey if you think it's that easy your wrong! BTW I used to be a underground dj and party promoter and I think what I do is not to put on the same level like gas attendent!!!! I kinda feel insulted by that. Do you know what it takes to choose the right track in the right spot? Ever saw a dj clear the dancefloor? Ever saw a DJ getting bottles thrown at him? If you want to see a good example of kickass dj go to a ninjatune show. They do magic with records. On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:22AM -0800, William S. wrote: > I really don't get it. At what point in time > did "D J's" become considered as celebrities > and artists. > > Maybe it's just me, but I find it very difficult to > attribute any sort of credit to a person who > puts a record on a turntable and turns the > volume up,or does other simple manipulations > to it. I mean... it is not their record. > They are just playing it. > > Yet, > > I see bulliten boards all around the city promoting > dances with DJ , DJ . > (Note the use of "DJ" preceding their name as if > it is an academic (earned) title like "Dr.".) > > There is a recent movie that showed here with a DJ > as a star. > > Apparently, they make "big bucks". > > They appear on MTV sometimes (Okay, maybe this doesn't > surprise me given the type of programming seen there.) > > I think I could go on a nd on with this "injustice" > or distortion of "values". (Kinda like the other thing that > irks me when "sports 'celebrities'" are referred > to as "heroes" ...I won't go there with this post.) > > Is this a sign of me being a grumpy-old-man? I am not > sure, I think even when I was a young teen I would have > been put off by it. > > Other "professions" that I think require _more_talent than > a DJ: > > elevator operator (not sure if they still exist) - person > who spends all day in the elevator, opening the doors; closing them; > moving it from one floor to the next. > > Gas station attendant - turning the pump on or off and maybe > selling cigarettes or carbonated beverages. > > Bicycle messenger - riding bike through the city delivering packages > and dodging around traffic. (Actually, I really do in a way think > these people are cool and their job is. Ever watch them? It is rather > "Mad Max-like" what they do. > > Other "professions" requiring __less__ talent than a DJ. > > * I can't think of one. * > > So what is your opinion? > > > -- > Bill > Amsterdam, NL > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From kris at catonic.net Tue Oct 22 11:35:09 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:35:09 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021022093100.56728a27.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Kurt Huhn wrote: > My sister-in-law is a "DJ" at a couple clubs in Rhode Island and > Massachussetts. The hardest part about it is finding the right music for > the crowd, and matching BPMs from one song to the next. My wife filled in > for her once, she said it was "the easiest $250 she ever made" and she was > only actually "spinning" for about 3.5 hours. Either that's grossly > overpaid, or I'm in the wrong line of work... Actually, only the bars and clubs pay well. Radio sucks in terms of pay. $5.15/hr to push buttons on say things. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Oct 22 11:46:43 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:46:43 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: References: <20021022093100.56728a27.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <20021022164643.GI403@mrbill.net> On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 04:35:09PM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > Actually, only the bars and clubs pay well. Radio sucks in terms of pay. > $5.15/hr to push buttons on say things. Damn, its STILL not that much better? Back when I worked in radio ('90-93), the only person who had been at the station longer than me was the owner (turnover is/was horrible), and after 2.5 years I *finally* got a raise to $5.25 from $4.75.... bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 22 12:09:12 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Steven Hill wrote: > > > I really don't get it. At what point in time > > > did "D J's" become considered as celebrities > > > and artists. > > > > Actually there are a VERY VERY few DJ's and/or DJ types who I would > > consider artists. Carl Cox, Conrad, the entirelty of what was Massive > > Attack etc... > > Paul Van Dyk (nuff said) > Pete Tong (owns ffrr) > there are others too... > > Those two are probably my all time faves. My favorites are LTJ Bukem and Goa Gil. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 22 12:09:52 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mixmaster Morris and Frankie Bones have been going for much longer than that. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Steven Hill wrote: > > I can only trace it back to about 3 years ago. 1998 or 1999. > > Boy George, Ministry of Sound, London. 1995 > > -- > Steven Hill > > This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From gleblanc at linuxweasel.com Tue Oct 22 12:09:56 2002 From: gleblanc at linuxweasel.com (Gregory Leblanc) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:09:56 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Thoughts re: PCI --> AGP upgrades In-Reply-To: <002d01c27954$ff4dd5a0$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> References: <006701c2793d$1ffa0480$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> <20021021214417.GJ403@mrbill.net> <002d01c27954$ff4dd5a0$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> Message-ID: <20021022170956.GE29411@peeps.cable.rcn.com> On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 06:55:47PM -0400, Andrew Weiss wrote: > The xServe also contains a half-length PCI slot that can contain an AGP card > via a special adapter. (the ATI Radeon 64 CTO option) The slot normally > comes with a second Gig E adapter. > > So I think something is going on. They say that AGP is merely a special > type of PCI slot... I forget the exact additional details that make it > special... might be power requirements in addition to bandwidth. I haven't looked at how Apple uses AGP, but on x86 machines, the AGP slot isn't part of the PCI bus. It gets piped off of the chipset at the same point as memory, and other busses. I don't know whether it actually uses PCI commands or not. Greg From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Tue Oct 22 13:25:02 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:25:02 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Printing on MacOS X Message-ID: <20021022182502.GC31239@cs.millersville.edu> http://www.creativemac.com/2002/10_oct/reviews/gimpprint021022.htm Article on improved printer support under OS X with Gimp-Print. I know there are a few printer geeks here who might appreciate it. -- Joshua D. Boyd From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Tue Oct 22 14:17:16 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:17:16 -0400 Subject: [geeks] SGI users looking for software In-Reply-To: <20021021085251.78e1c97e.kurt@k-huhn.com> References: <20021020045505.GA22001@cs.millersville.edu> <1035097486.26249.3.camel@osiris.synack-hosting.com> <20021020091336.4130acec.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021021034402.GD430@cs.millersville.edu> <20021021085251.78e1c97e.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <20021022191716.GG32523@cs.millersville.edu> On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 08:52:51AM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > I respectfully disagree. Friendliness is not a measure of how useful a > piece of software is, it's a measure of how easy it is to learn and become > adept at. Lightwave 5.6, for example, is not friendly. BrylCAD is > downright hostile. On the other end of the spectrum, Wings is very > friendly. Rhino practically caters to every whim. Now, you may have a > point about stripping out unneeded features - but that has nothing to do > with freindliness, it only removes features that aren't necessary to the > target audience. One could coherently argue that BrylCAD and Rhino are > targeted at the same audience, but there's a huge difference in the > friendlyiness between the two. I wouldn't say that BRL-CAD and Rhino are aimed at the same audience. BRL-CAD is aimed at a more scientific market from what I've seen. Anyway, if an appication has the features, but is hard for anyone to use, it obviously isn't very powerful. But what do you want from these high end packages? To spill all their secrets on the GUI right away would mean an aweful amount of screen clutter. In my opinion, a well designed graphics application is one that studies what operations people use the most, and puts them immediately at their finger tips. It then should make it fairly easy to do common but not constant tasks, and finally make it easy to figure out how to do the arcane stuff, assuming a basic level of familiarity with the application. -- Joshua D. Boyd From tgallaway at comcast.net Tue Oct 22 14:22:46 2002 From: tgallaway at comcast.net (Thomas Gallaway (wireless)) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:22:46 -0700 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021022164643.GI403@mrbill.net> References: <20021022093100.56728a27.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021022164643.GI403@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <1035314723.79DCA1C@r5.dngr.org> When we used to do illegal raves in germany we used to cut even and not make a cent. We belived in certain stuff to not sell stuff to expensive so most money we made paid the bill for generator, fuel and other expenses. We just did it for fun and had great success with that. 3-400 people/party. On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:03AM -0800, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 04:35:09PM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: >> Actually, only the bars and clubs pay well. Radio sucks in terms of >> pay. >> $5.15/hr to push buttons on say things. > > Damn, its STILL not that much better? Back when I worked in radio > ('90-93), > the only person who had been at the station longer than me was the > owner > (turnover is/was horrible), and after 2.5 years I *finally* got a raise > to > $5.25 from $4.75.... > > bill > > -- > bill bradford > mrbill at mrbill.net > austin, texas > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From kris at catonic.net Tue Oct 22 14:40:03 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:40:03 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <1035314723.79DCA1C@r5.dngr.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Thomas Gallaway (wireless) wrote: > When we used to do illegal raves in germany we used to cut even and not > make a cent. We belived in certain stuff to not sell stuff to expensive > so most money we made paid the bill for generator, fuel and other > expenses. We just did it for fun and had great success with that. 3-400 > people/party. A hippie friend of mine gave me a really good idea on outdoor events; get a dieself generator and feed it homemade biodiesel. It becomes much more affordable if you get your fuel for freeeeeeeee. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Oct 22 14:43:27 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:43:27 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8917588D-E5F6-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 03:40 PM, Kris Kirby wrote: >> When we used to do illegal raves in germany we used to cut even and >> not >> make a cent. We belived in certain stuff to not sell stuff to >> expensive >> so most money we made paid the bill for generator, fuel and other >> expenses. We just did it for fun and had great success with that. >> 3-400 >> people/party. > > A hippie friend of mine gave me a really good idea on outdoor events; > get > a dieself generator and feed it homemade biodiesel. It becomes much > more > affordable if you get your fuel for freeeeeeeee. Ok, I'll bite. What the fuck is "homemade biodiesel"? -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From nimitz at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 22 14:45:48 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:45:48 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: Message-ID: <3DB5AAEC.4010009@speakeasy.net> Kris Kirby wrote: > On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Thomas Gallaway (wireless) wrote: > >>When we used to do illegal raves in germany we used to cut even and not >>make a cent. We belived in certain stuff to not sell stuff to expensive >>so most money we made paid the bill for generator, fuel and other >>expenses. We just did it for fun and had great success with that. 3-400 >>people/party. > > > A hippie friend of mine gave me a really good idea on outdoor events; get > a dieself generator and feed it homemade biodiesel. It becomes much more > affordable if you get your fuel for freeeeeeeee. That is until you have no place to grow the bio part of the bio-diesel. Or until the fast-food companies figure out that there is money to be made in the grease that they're disposing via the owners of "veggie van"(s). The best bet IMHO is some sort of H2O -> Hydrogen production using efficient solar. That at least would produce a semi-renewable fuel. Until it goes mainstream for years and then mis-adjusts something in our atmosphere. Then again maybe by that time we'll be bred for life in that environment. ;-) Mike Hebel From james at jdfogg.com Tue Oct 22 14:49:09 2002 From: james at jdfogg.com (James) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:49:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: References: <1035314723.79DCA1C@r5.dngr.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021022154807.009f5c90@mail.jdfogg.com> hippie friend of mine gave me a really good idea on outdoor events; get >a dieself generator and feed it homemade biodiesel. It becomes much more >affordable if you get your fuel for freeeeeeeee. Yeah, and the smell of burning mcdonalds grease will smell like french fries and they will line up at the concession stands drooling. From nimitz at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 22 14:52:15 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:52:15 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <8917588D-E5F6-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3DB5AC6F.4030601@speakeasy.net> Dave McGuire wrote: > On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 03:40 PM, Kris Kirby wrote: > > Ok, I'll bite. What the fuck is "homemade biodiesel"? It's a natural diesel fuel extracted from certain plants. http://www.biodiesel.org/ Basically it's a natural diesel that is a completely swappable substitute for diesel. No change in the engine necessary. It can also be extracted from old fryer oil. ;-) Mike Hebel From kris at catonic.net Tue Oct 22 14:57:11 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:57:11 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021022154807.009f5c90@mail.jdfogg.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, James wrote: > Yeah, and the smell of burning mcdonalds grease will smell like french > fries and they will line up at the concession stands drooling. great trick to pull at `weight watchers' too... -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From swallbridge at franticfilms.com Tue Oct 22 14:58:57 2002 From: swallbridge at franticfilms.com (Shawn Wallbridge) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:58:57 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <3DB5AAEC.4010009@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <3DB5AE01.8050109@franticfilms.com> Mike Hebel wrote: > > That is until you have no place to grow the bio part of the > bio-diesel. Or until the fast-food companies figure out that there is > money to be made in the grease that they're disposing via the owners > of "veggie van"(s). The best bet IMHO is some sort of H2O -> Hydrogen > production using efficient solar. That at least would produce a > semi-renewable fuel. Until it goes mainstream for years and then > mis-adjusts something in our atmosphere. Then again maybe by that > time we'll be bred for life in that environment. ;-) > > Mike Hebel > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks Umm. Could water mis-adjust something in our atmosphere? Maybe I am reading that wrong. shawn From kurt at k-huhn.com Tue Oct 22 14:57:36 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:57:36 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <8917588D-E5F6-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> References: <8917588D-E5F6-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20021022155736.1f8f218d.kurt@k-huhn.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > > Ok, I'll bite. What the fuck is "homemade biodiesel"? > Vegatable oil. Pretty much. You *can* add crap to it to make things run smoother and not gel up in the cold, but mods to the vehicle are easier to do. I had a VW Rabbit Diesel that would eat anything oily that I threw at it - vegetable oil, crankcase drippings, and so on. Vegetable oil made my VW smell like a Krispy Creme :) -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From mike at blackhairy.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 22 15:01:19 2002 From: mike at blackhairy.demon.co.uk (Mike Meredith) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:01:19 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <8917588D-E5F6-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> References: <8917588D-E5F6-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <200210222101.19649.mike@blackhairy.demon.co.uk> On Tuesday 22 October 2002 8:43 pm, Dave McGuire wrote: > Ok, I'll bite. What the fuck is "homemade biodiesel"? Don't know about over there, but over here it's a diesel substitute made from some kind of vegetable oil frequently with some kind of additive like white spirit. Used fast food oil is apparently quite good and makes the smell quite pleasant. Mind you when they were experimenting with buses powered by it in Portsmouth, I'd constantly find myself hungry when one passed by. From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Oct 22 15:00:07 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:00:07 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <3DB5AC6F.4030601@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 03:52 PM, Mike Hebel wrote: > It's a natural diesel fuel extracted from certain plants. > > http://www.biodiesel.org/ > > Basically it's a natural diesel that is a completely swappable > substitute for diesel. No change in the engine necessary. > > It can also be extracted from old fryer oil. ;-) Wow...Why don't more people know about this? -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Oct 22 15:04:55 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:04:55 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021022155736.1f8f218d.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <88B55DF4-E5F9-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 03:57 PM, Kurt Huhn wrote: >> Ok, I'll bite. What the fuck is "homemade biodiesel"? > Vegatable oil. Pretty much. You *can* add crap to it to make things > run > smoother and not gel up in the cold, but mods to the vehicle are > easier to > do. I had a VW Rabbit Diesel that would eat anything oily that I > threw at > it - vegetable oil, crankcase drippings, and so on. Vegetable oil > made my > VW smell like a Krispy Creme :) Wow... -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From nimitz at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 22 15:09:55 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:09:55 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <3DB5AAEC.4010009@speakeasy.net> <3DB5AE01.8050109@franticfilms.com> Message-ID: <3DB5B093.6020804@speakeasy.net> Shawn Wallbridge wrote: > Mike Hebel wrote: > >> >> That is until you have no place to grow the bio part of the >> bio-diesel. Or until the fast-food companies figure out that there >> is money to be made in the grease that they're disposing via the >> owners of "veggie van"(s). The best bet IMHO is some sort of H2O >> -> Hydrogen production using efficient solar. That at least would >> produce a semi-renewable fuel. Until it goes mainstream for years >> and then mis-adjusts something in our atmosphere. Then again maybe >> by that time we'll be bred for life in that environment. ;-) >> > > > Umm. Could water mis-adjust something in our atmosphere? Maybe I am > reading that wrong. No, you read it right. I'm one of those nuts who doesn't like large systems that are currently working messed with so when I look at any large system I immediately assume that all the small changes will most likely make something big change regardless of how far away from A to B the changes are. Kind of like a box-elder bug in a VME bus - it _will_ short something when a board is pulled/installed. There is no if. With the H2O thing I don't have enough data to judge what an increase in the atmospheric moisture would do over time. IANAC (I Am Not A Climatologist - or whatever the proper term is.) but I look at a larger amount of moisture as a slightly denser atmosphere, thus affecting sunlight, thermal retention, and other unknowns. We don't know enough about the system yet to "hack the planet". ;-) Mike Hebel From dave at cca.org Tue Oct 22 15:41:05 2002 From: dave at cca.org (dave at cca.org) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:41:05 EDT Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <3DB5B093.6020804@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <02422164105.dave.16166@cca.org> nimitz at speakeasy.net writes: >No, you read it right. I'm one of those nuts who doesn't like large >systems that are currently working messed with so when I look at any >large system I immediately assume that all the small changes will most >likely make something big change regardless of how far away from A to B >the changes are. Kind of like a box-elder bug in a VME bus - it _will_ >short something when a board is pulled/installed. There is no if. >With the H2O thing I don't have enough data to judge what an increase in >the atmospheric moisture would do over time. IANAC (I Am Not A >Climatologist - or whatever the proper term is.) but I look at a larger >amount of moisture as a slightly denser atmosphere, thus affecting >sunlight, thermal retention, and other unknowns. Certainly a valid concern. Recent glacier meltings in the arctic region have been noticably decreasing the salinity of the surface water in the North Atlantic in the past decade or two. That may well lead to the gulf stream stalling, which would send Europe into a "mini ice age". Complex systems are hard to predict. ------ David Fischer ------- dave at cca.org ------- http://www.cca.org ------ ----------- When Heaven is full, the dead shall walk the earth. ----------- From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Oct 22 15:48:41 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:48:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <3DB5B093.6020804@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 04:09 PM, Mike Hebel wrote: > With the H2O thing I don't have enough data to judge what an increase > in > the atmospheric moisture would do over time. IANAC (I Am Not A > Climatologist - or whatever the proper term is.) but I look at a > larger > amount of moisture as a slightly denser atmosphere, thus affecting > sunlight, thermal retention, and other unknowns. I'm not an atmospheric scientist either, but look at what we DO know about the atmospheric H2O system: it's self-balancing. When the moisture density gets above a certain point, it condenses and forms rain (or snow, hail, whatever)...Increasing the amount of atmospheric moisture will simply increase the amount of precipitation, in those areas where the "new" moisture moves to and settles. The increased precipitation in some areas may cause other problems, though, of course. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Oct 22 15:48:56 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:48:56 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <8917588D-E5F6-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> References: <8917588D-E5F6-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20021022204856.GZ403@mrbill.net> On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 03:43:27PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > Ok, I'll bite. What the fuck is "homemade biodiesel"? The stuff left over in the fryer at the end of the day at McDonalds. E.g., grease. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Oct 22 15:49:51 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:49:51 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021022155736.1f8f218d.kurt@k-huhn.com> References: <8917588D-E5F6-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> <20021022155736.1f8f218d.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <20021022204951.GA403@mrbill.net> On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 03:57:36PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Vegetable oil made my VW smell like a Krispy Creme :) Damn you. now I want donuts. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From nimitz at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 22 15:53:29 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:53:29 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <3DB5B093.6020804@speakeasy.net> <02422164105.dave.16166@cca.org> Message-ID: <3DB5BAC9.70602@speakeasy.net> dave at cca.org wrote: > nimitz at speakeasy.net writes: > > >>No, you read it right. I'm one of those nuts who doesn't like large >>systems that are currently working messed with so when I look at any >>large system I immediately assume that all the small changes will most >>likely make something big change regardless of how far away from A to B >>the changes are. Kind of like a box-elder bug in a VME bus - it _will_ >>short something when a board is pulled/installed. There is no if. > > >>With the H2O thing I don't have enough data to judge what an increase in >>the atmospheric moisture would do over time. IANAC (I Am Not A >>Climatologist - or whatever the proper term is.) but I look at a larger >>amount of moisture as a slightly denser atmosphere, thus affecting >>sunlight, thermal retention, and other unknowns. > > > Certainly a valid concern. Recent glacier meltings in the arctic > region have been noticably decreasing the salinity of the surface > water in the North Atlantic in the past decade or two. That may > well lead to the gulf stream stalling, which would send Europe > into a "mini ice age". Hmm...I hadn't heard that one. I need to read more since I now have actual broadband to download large books and PDFs. (Was there anybody that actually came up with a good print and binding solution for large computer-bound files? My iBook isn't wireless yet. ;-) As for the glacial melting and global warming I'm just wondering how long it'll take before The Keys are under water. ;-) > Complex systems are hard to predict. Indeed. Some people can't even get small systems like computers right. *grin* Mike Hebel From tgallaway at comcast.net Tue Oct 22 15:56:24 2002 From: tgallaway at comcast.net (Thomas Gallaway (wireless)) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:56:24 -0700 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1035320193.11E98B49@r5.dngr.org> On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 1:29PM -0800, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 03:52 PM, Mike Hebel wrote: >> It's a natural diesel fuel extracted from certain plants. >> >> http://www.biodiesel.org/ >> >> Basically it's a natural diesel that is a completely swappable >> substitute for diesel. No change in the engine necessary. >> >> It can also be extracted from old fryer oil. ;-) > > Wow...Why don't more people know about this? > They don't want you to know this. Go figure... > _______________________________________________ From nimitz at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 22 16:00:24 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:00:24 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: Message-ID: <3DB5BC68.2040105@speakeasy.net> Dave McGuire wrote: > I'm not an atmospheric scientist either, but look at what we DO know > about the atmospheric H2O system: it's self-balancing. When the > moisture density gets above a certain point, it condenses and forms rain > (or snow, hail, whatever)...Increasing the amount of atmospheric > moisture will simply increase the amount of precipitation, in those > areas where the "new" moisture moves to and settles. > The self-balancing thing is what makes me skeptical about the global warming thing. From the standpoint of the planet the Earth is a closed-system with feedback control. If we start heating it up too much I'm betting we'll see it cool down too much to compensate. > The increased precipitation in some areas may cause other problems, > though, of course. Mmmm....desert stored nuclear waste leeching into an ocean. Nice. (Ok, so I'm being extreme but you get the idea.) Of course these things happen so slowly under "normal" time that we'd most likely find a way to deal with the situation. Probably by moving ourselves to higher ground. Mike Hebel From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Oct 22 16:03:30 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:03:30 -0500 Subject: [geeks] [david@aulis.demon.co.uk: Re: PDP 11/84] Message-ID: <20021022210330.GE403@mrbill.net> Free PDP 11/84 for rescue in the UK. Please contact David directly if you're in the UK and can rescue this machine.. Also, can someone who is on classiccmp forward this to that list as well? thanks. Bill ----- Forwarded message from David Warden ----- Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:59:44 +0100 From: David Warden To: mrbill at mrbill.net Subject: Re: PDP 11/84 Cc: david at aulis.demon.co.uk Bill, Thanks for your prompt reply. Please do forward my details to your contacts in the UK. I look forward to hearing from them. Its great to get such a positive response. I have been trying on and off for about a year to find a new home for this machine as I really do need the space. I've always thought it was too good for scrap which was why I saved it in the first place. Its in two DEC cabinets each 40in high x 20in wide x 30in deep. Once I've dug it out from under three years accumulated clutter I can send further details and/or pictures to anyone who is interested. It spent most of its life in a climate-controlled equipment room at the hospital and I've kept it in the house since so it is in quite clean condition. Once again, thanks for your help. Best Regards, David. --- David, With your permission, I'll forward this to a group of people who collect and rescue such machines from the skip and give them a good home. I'd take it myself, if I wasnt thousands of miles away. 8-) Let me know, and I'll forward this and have people contact you directly. Bill On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 10:50:45PM +0100, David Warden wrote: > Dear Sir, > I am trying to find a good home for a DEC PDP 11/84 mini computer (circa 1986 > vintage) which I salvaged in 1997 and whose space I now need. > The working (when last powered up in 1999) system comprises the following > main components: > 11X84-BB > TU80-CB > RA81-AD > and boots DSM 11 version 4.1. > It was in use until 1997 running a laborartory system at a district > general hospital. Since then it has been stored in the study at my house in > Gloucestershire, England. > I am keen that this system should go to someone who will appreciate it > and not just strip it for spares or try to sell it. If you have any > bona fide contacts in the South West of England who might be interested then > I would be grateful if you could forward my e-mail details on to them. > I do not want to advertise on the web or in the news groups since I don't > want to get spam for everafter and want to be sure that anyone I deal with is > genuine. > Thanks in anticipation of your help. > Yours faithfully, > David Warden ----- End forwarded message ----- From dave at cca.org Tue Oct 22 16:07:54 2002 From: dave at cca.org (dave at cca.org) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:07:54 EDT Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <3DB5BC68.2040105@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <02422170754.dave.3834@cca.org> nimitz at speakeasy.net writes: >The self-balancing thing is what makes me skeptical about the global >warming thing. From the standpoint of the planet the Earth is a >closed-system with feedback control. If we start heating it up too much >I'm betting we'll see it cool down too much to compensate. Sure. But that balancing sometimes involves the sea level rising or falling by a few hundred feet. (Slight changes in temp have an enourmous impact on the amount of water stored in glaciers.) That might have some impact on human civilization. ------ David Fischer ------- dave at cca.org ------- http://www.cca.org ------ ----------- When Heaven is full, the dead shall walk the earth. ----------- From Brian.Dunbar at plexus.com Tue Oct 22 16:17:53 2002 From: Brian.Dunbar at plexus.com (Brian Dunbar) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:17:53 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <93EF56FF0BD1234E8D1C74B9813E0EA0013F25E7@neen-mail-003.na.plexus.com> -----Original Message----- From: Mike Hebel [mailto:nimitz at speakeasy.net] > Certainly a valid concern. Recent glacier meltings in the arctic > region have been noticably decreasing the salinity of the surface > water in the North Atlantic in the past decade or two. That may > well lead to the gulf stream stalling, which would send Europe > into a "mini ice age". Hmm...I hadn't heard that one. I need to read more since I now have actual broadband to download large books and PDFs. Found this link a few weeks ago .. http://www.whoi.edu/home/about/whatsnew_abruptclimate.html ~brian From sjh at waroffice.net Tue Oct 22 16:30:55 2002 From: sjh at waroffice.net (Steven Hill) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:30:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <93EF56FF0BD1234E8D1C74B9813E0EA0013F25E7@neen-mail-003.na.plexus.com> Message-ID: A good book to read is Global Biogeochemical Cycles. (Butcher) I read it when I was studying climate, and geoscience. The thing to remember is that the earth has a tendency to survive change, it buffers changes in CO2, and other greenhouse gases and so on, but the effects do show up. A noteworthy point, is that changes of a cyclic nature, such as atmospheric (and oceanic) CO2 concentrations are barely affected by our existance on this rock. -- Steven Hill This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 22 16:49:08 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm a personal believer in the view (which I haven't made any attempt to prove -- I believe it purely nonscientifically) that the current global warming is a result of the precession of the Earth's axis of rotation. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Steven Hill wrote: > A good book to read is Global Biogeochemical Cycles. (Butcher) > > I read it when I was studying climate, and geoscience. > > The thing to remember is that the earth has a tendency to survive change, > it buffers changes in CO2, and other greenhouse gases and so on, but the > effects do show up. > > A noteworthy point, is that changes of a cyclic nature, such as > atmospheric (and oceanic) CO2 concentrations are barely affected by our > existance on this rock. > > -- > Steven Hill > > This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From sjh at waroffice.net Tue Oct 22 17:09:24 2002 From: sjh at waroffice.net (Steven Hill) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:09:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm a personal believer in the view (which I haven't made any attempt to > prove -- I believe it purely nonscientifically) that the current global > warming is a result of the precession of the Earth's axis of rotation. Exactly! I looked at the Ice Cap 0xygen isotope readings about three years ago... The changes in which can be directly linked to atmospheric CO2. The cycle seemed to be following an interesting pattern... And since the earth wobbles on its axis in about three different ways, and the earth has been shown to have 4 or 5 cycles covering 400, 100, 40, 23 ka (IIRC the 23 is really 26 and 20) While I do not advocate the abuse of the planet, I do beleive that the tree hugging morons should actually study some science so they don't panic the masses. http://www.env.duke.edu/faculty/barber/bio123/Readings/9.1%20Zachos.pdf Might explain some of this better than I. -- Steven Hill This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. From nimitz at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 22 17:12:53 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:12:53 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <93EF56FF0BD1234E8D1C74B9813E0EA0013F25E7@neen-mail-003.na.plexus.com> Message-ID: <3DB5CD65.1060100@speakeasy.net> Brian Dunbar wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Hebel [mailto:nimitz at speakeasy.net] > > >>Certainly a valid concern. Recent glacier meltings in the arctic >>region have been noticably decreasing the salinity of the surface >>water in the North Atlantic in the past decade or two. That may >>well lead to the gulf stream stalling, which would send Europe >>into a "mini ice age". > > > Hmm...I hadn't heard that one. I need to read more since I now have > actual broadband to download large books and PDFs. > > Found this link a few weeks ago .. > http://www.whoi.edu/home/about/whatsnew_abruptclimate.html Cool. (No pun intended.) Thanks! I'll have to read this tonight. Mike From nimitz at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 22 17:18:33 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:18:33 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <3DB5BC68.2040105@speakeasy.net> <02422170754.dave.3834@cca.org> Message-ID: <3DB5CEB9.1010104@speakeasy.net> dave at cca.org wrote: > nimitz at speakeasy.net writes: > > >>The self-balancing thing is what makes me skeptical about the global >>warming thing. From the standpoint of the planet the Earth is a >>closed-system with feedback control. If we start heating it up too much >>I'm betting we'll see it cool down too much to compensate. > > > Sure. But that balancing sometimes involves the sea level rising > or falling by a few hundred feet. (Slight changes in temp have an > enourmous impact on the amount of water stored in glaciers.) > > That might have some impact on human civilization. I didn't say that the compensation wouldn't be without impact. I just said that I was skeptical of the theory. From what I can see most proponents of the theory do not recognize a control mechanism for compensation of the heat increase. (Minus fresh links that I haven't read yet.) As for the flooding - I think that is more than a little likely and more than a little problematic. Mike Hebel From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 22 17:21:50 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:21:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It looks like an excellent read. I can't wait to read it. Thanks. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Steven Hill wrote: > > I'm a personal believer in the view (which I haven't made any attempt to > > prove -- I believe it purely nonscientifically) that the current global > > warming is a result of the precession of the Earth's axis of rotation. > > Exactly! > > I looked at the Ice Cap 0xygen isotope readings about three years ago... > The changes in which can be directly linked to atmospheric CO2. > The cycle seemed to be following an interesting pattern... And since the > earth wobbles on its axis in about three different ways, and the earth has > been shown to have 4 or 5 cycles covering 400, 100, 40, 23 ka (IIRC the 23 > is really 26 and 20) > > While I do not advocate the abuse of the planet, I do beleive that the > tree hugging morons should actually study some science so they don't panic > the masses. > > http://www.env.duke.edu/faculty/barber/bio123/Readings/9.1%20Zachos.pdf > Might explain some of this better than I. > > -- > Steven Hill > > This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From nimitz at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 22 17:19:29 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:19:29 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: Message-ID: <3DB5CEF1.80200@speakeasy.net> Steven Hill wrote: >>I'm a personal believer in the view (which I haven't made any attempt to >>prove -- I believe it purely nonscientifically) that the current global >>warming is a result of the precession of the Earth's axis of rotation. > > > Exactly! > > I looked at the Ice Cap 0xygen isotope readings about three years ago... > The changes in which can be directly linked to atmospheric CO2. > The cycle seemed to be following an interesting pattern... And since the > earth wobbles on its axis in about three different ways, and the earth has > been shown to have 4 or 5 cycles covering 400, 100, 40, 23 ka (IIRC the 23 > is really 26 and 20) > > While I do not advocate the abuse of the planet, I do beleive that the > tree hugging morons should actually study some science so they don't panic > the masses. > > http://www.env.duke.edu/faculty/barber/bio123/Readings/9.1%20Zachos.pdf > Might explain some of this better than I. I can see that I'm going to have som reading material for tonight. ;-) Mike Hebel From nimitz at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 22 17:21:36 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:21:36 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: Message-ID: <3DB5CF70.9050507@speakeasy.net> Steven Hill wrote: > A good book to read is Global Biogeochemical Cycles. (Butcher) > > I read it when I was studying climate, and geoscience. > > The thing to remember is that the earth has a tendency to survive change, > it buffers changes in CO2, and other greenhouse gases and so on, but the > effects do show up. > > A noteworthy point, is that changes of a cyclic nature, such as > atmospheric (and oceanic) CO2 concentrations are barely affected by our > existance on this rock. The trick is living through long cycles of harsh conditions. Fortunately we humans are almost cockroach adaptable as far as our environment is concerned in my opinion. We can learn to live anywhere given a little time and effort. ;-) Mike Hebel From chris at yonderway.com Tue Oct 22 17:27:07 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:27:07 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <8917588D-E5F6-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <65D3E5D2-E60D-11D6-8C77-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 03:43 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: > Ok, I'll bite. What the fuck is "homemade biodiesel"? Just what it sounds like. Get some sort of vegetable oil, refine it into diesel, and run it in your generator or car. Chris Hedemark Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com From chris at yonderway.com Tue Oct 22 17:29:18 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:29:18 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 04:00 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: > Wow...Why don't more people know about this? 1) It requires work to make. 2) Homemade fuel is not taxable and we'd like to keep it that way. However, many states (including my own) are starting to deploy biodiesel filling stations. I think Hawaii is ahead of us mainlanders. Chris Hedemark Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Oct 22 17:34:34 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:34:34 -0700 Subject: [geeks] [david@aulis.demon.co.uk: Re: PDP 11/84] In-Reply-To: <20021022210330.GE403@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021022153425.04f1ee00@mail.zipcon.net> At 04:03 PM 10/22/02 -0500, you wrote: >Free PDP 11/84 for rescue in the UK. > >Please contact David directly if you're in the UK and can rescue this >machine.. Also, can someone who is on classiccmp forward this to that >list as well? Done From nimitz at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 22 17:30:01 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:30:01 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: Message-ID: <3DB5D169.6090404@speakeasy.net> Chris Hedemark wrote: > On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 04:00 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: > >> Wow...Why don't more people know about this? > > > 1) It requires work to make. Auugh! No! I actually have to setup a crank and filter system! I have to do *gasp* manual labor! ;-) > 2) Homemade fuel is not taxable and we'd like to keep it that way. Shhh! Big Brother will hear you! > However, many states (including my own) are starting to deploy biodiesel > filling stations. I think Hawaii is ahead of us mainlanders. Http://www.biodiesel.com instead of .org is a good example of that. Mike Hebel From kurt at k-huhn.com Tue Oct 22 17:32:36 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:32:36 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021022204951.GA403@mrbill.net> References: <8917588D-E5F6-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> <20021022155736.1f8f218d.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021022204951.GA403@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20021022183236.3c515a06.kurt@k-huhn.com> Bill Bradford wrote: > On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 03:57:36PM -0400, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > Vegetable oil made my VW smell like a Krispy Creme :) > > Damn you. now I want donuts. > If it's any consolation, I've been wanting donuts since Sunday... -- Kurt "I remember that I've got a solid base of worms and kurt at k-huhn.com ant eggs. I puke like a hero all night long." -- Tony Bourdain From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Oct 22 17:35:19 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:35:19 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8B44DE86-E60E-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 06:29 PM, Chris Hedemark wrote: >> Wow...Why don't more people know about this? > > 1) It requires work to make. > 2) Homemade fuel is not taxable and we'd like to keep it that way. > > However, many states (including my own) are starting to deploy > biodiesel filling stations. I think Hawaii is ahead of us > mainlanders. Cool. Have you ever used it? If so, how well did it work for you? -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From phil at tux.obix.com Tue Oct 22 17:36:28 2002 From: phil at tux.obix.com (Phil Brutsche) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:36:28 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Thoughts re: PCI --> AGP upgrades References: <006701c2793d$1ffa0480$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> <20021021214417.GJ403@mrbill.net> <002d01c27954$ff4dd5a0$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> <20021022170956.GE29411@peeps.cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <3DB5D2EC.6030808@tux.obix.com> Gregory Leblanc wrote: > I haven't looked at how Apple uses AGP, but on x86 machines, the AGP > slot isn't part of the PCI bus. It gets piped off of the chipset at > the same point as memory, and other busses. I don't know whether it > actually uses PCI commands or not. It seems to, at least in part. On every PC I've seen the OS sees the AGP slot as another PCI bus. Take this slightly abrigded `lspci` example from a Linux PC: 00:00.0 Host bridge 00:01.0 PCI bridge 00:07.0 ISA bridge 00:07.1 IDE interface 00:07.2 USB Controller 00:07.3 Bridge 00:08.0 Ethernet controller 00:09.0 RAID bus controller 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller -- Phil Brutsche phil at tux.obix.com From chris at yonderway.com Tue Oct 22 19:03:34 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:03:34 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <8B44DE86-E60E-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 06:35 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: > Cool. > > Have you ever used it? If so, how well did it work for you? Not yet. It's something I'm following. I just paid off my car (finally), and when finances stabilize a bit I'd like to trade it in on a diesel jetta. Part of it is because of the ~50MPG fuel economy, and part of the reason is because it is not picky about what sorts of fuel it will burn. Some people even run pre-used kitchen grease in these things (http://www.greasecar.com) though I am more interested in refined biodiesel. The other project on the near horizon is purchasing a used school bus from the state surplus and converting it into an RV. If I can take advantage of renewable fuels for it, then I am eager to do so. So at this point, no, I haven't used the stuff yet but I've been reading a lot about it due to plans for changes in the Hedemark Street Armada. Chris Hedemark Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com From david at cantrell.org.uk Tue Oct 22 19:05:34 2002 From: david at cantrell.org.uk (David Cantrell) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 01:05:34 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <3DB5BC68.2040105@speakeasy.net>; from nimitz@speakeasy.net on Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 04:00:24PM -0500 References: <3DB5BC68.2040105@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20021023010534.A6431@barnyard.co.uk> On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 04:00:24PM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > Dave McGuire wrote: > > I'm not an atmospheric scientist either, but look at what we DO know > > about the atmospheric H2O system: it's self-balancing. When the > > moisture density gets above a certain point, it condenses and forms rain > > (or snow, hail, whatever)...Increasing the amount of atmospheric > > moisture will simply increase the amount of precipitation, in those > > areas where the "new" moisture moves to and settles. > The self-balancing thing is what makes me skeptical about the global > warming thing. From the standpoint of the planet the Earth is a > closed-system with feedback control. If we start heating it up too much > I'm betting we'll see it cool down too much to compensate. Not necessarily. Complex systems can have several steady states. Here, have an analogy: take a curved surface shaped approximately like a parabola but with a hump in the middle. Place a ball somewhere on that surface. We know that it will end up in one of the two dips, but without doing some sums (which have two variables - the shape of the surface and the co-efficient of friction) we don't know where. Now extrapolate to the global climate, which is a problem in an unknown number of variables interacting in ways which are at best poorly understood. It seems that we are currently at the bottom of one of the dips, in a steady state. But we don't know the exact shape of the surface we're on, and we don't know what will happen to the ball when we put some energy into the system. We might give it enough energy to kick it over the hump. Or, ghod forbid, the surface might be an S shape with some wiggles in the middle - so will have one or more steady states, plus one that shoots off to infinity. -- David Cantrell | Degenerate | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david There is no sigmonster From nimitz at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 22 19:32:40 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:32:40 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <3DB5BC68.2040105@speakeasy.net> <20021023010534.A6431@barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <3DB5EE28.4010308@speakeasy.net> David Cantrell wrote: > Not necessarily. Complex systems can have several steady states. True. > Here, have an analogy: take a curved surface shaped approximately like a > parabola but with a hump in the middle. Place a ball somewhere on that > surface. We know that it will end up in one of the two dips, but without > doing some sums (which have two variables - the shape of the surface and > the co-efficient of friction) we don't know where. Now extrapolate to > the global climate, which is a problem in an unknown number of variables > interacting in ways which are at best poorly understood. It seems that we > are currently at the bottom of one of the dips, in a steady state. But > we don't know the exact shape of the surface we're on, and we don't know what > will happen to the ball when we put some energy into the system. We might > give it enough energy to kick it over the hump. Or, ghod forbid, the > surface might be an S shape with some wiggles in the middle - so will have > one or more steady states, plus one that shoots off to infinity. > I get the concept even though I started to zone out the minute you mentioned math. (My biggest failed subject.) And, I agree. That's why I think that the current "prediction" of global warming is off. There's no way they know using the current information that they can make a call of that magnitude with any clear judgement or an accurancy IMHO of more than random chance. Now I'm not saying that something shouldn't be done and that some action is not needed but most of the time I've had it presented to me as a complete and whole explaination. As far as I'm concerned it's not even close to complete. Still, I guess that's as far as we could get with current data. Mike Hebel Mike Hebel From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Oct 22 19:58:06 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:58:06 -0700 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: References: <8B44DE86-E60E-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021022175353.05041ae0@mail.zipcon.net> At 08:03 PM 10/22/02 -0400, you wrote: >On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 06:35 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: > >> Cool. >> >> Have you ever used it? If so, how well did it work for you? There's a place here in the seattle area that sells 'biodiesel' I've driven a chevy diesel using it. it works well, the only current problem is it gells when it gets too cold. the fix for that is to add a bit of real diesel to the tank before filling up with biodiesel,a nd that seems to keep it from gelling, and doesn't noticable increase the emissions. basically biodiesel is vegatable oil that has had a chemical cocktail added to it to help keep it liquid or turning rancid and to bring it to the octane level of regular diesel. There's a guy here in the Olympia Washington area that is designing a kit so anyone can make biodiesel at home. From hamellr at heorot.1nova.com Tue Oct 22 21:16:35 2002 From: hamellr at heorot.1nova.com (Rick Hamell) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021022204951.GA403@mrbill.net> Message-ID: > > Vegetable oil made my VW smell like a Krispy Creme :) > > Damn you. now I want donuts. Am I the only person in the world who can't stand Krisy Creme? Rick From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Oct 22 20:29:52 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:29:52 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 10:16 PM, Rick Hamell wrote: >>> Vegetable oil made my VW smell like a Krispy Creme :) >> >> Damn you. now I want donuts. > > Am I the only person in the world who can't stand Krisy > Creme? Probably. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From sjh at waroffice.net Tue Oct 22 20:31:48 2002 From: sjh at waroffice.net (Steven Hill) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:31:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Am I the only person in the world who can't stand Krisy > > Creme? > > Probably. They are the best I have found here. But I yearn for a decent sugared doughring. Mmmmm. -- Steven Hill This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. From kris at catonic.net Tue Oct 22 22:06:42 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 03:06:42 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Rick Hamell wrote: > Am I the only person in the world who can't stand Krisy > Creme? Bite me. :-P -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From sjh at waroffice.net Tue Oct 22 22:10:47 2002 From: sjh at waroffice.net (Steven Hill) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 22:10:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Bite me. :-P Tastes like pig. -- Steven Hill This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Oct 22 23:50:19 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 00:50:19 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 08:03 PM, Chris Hedemark wrote: > The other project on the near horizon is purchasing a used school bus > from the state surplus and converting it into an RV. If I can take > advantage of renewable fuels for it, then I am eager to do so. A used school bus...that would rock. There was a school bus for sale in Beltsville, MD for a long time...I used to pass it every day on my way to work. It was sitting in front of a house with a "for sale" sign on it. It was painted metallic green with a white racing stripe down the side, with very bright chromed wheels. It looked hilarious. I actually considered buying it at one point. My rationale was simple: with such a vehicle, you wouldn't have to go to the party...the party could come to YOU! :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Oct 23 00:17:07 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 00:17:07 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021023051707.GR403@mrbill.net> On Wed, Oct 23, 2002 at 03:06:42AM +0000, Kris Kirby wrote: > On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Rick Hamell wrote: > > Am I the only person in the world who can't stand Krisy > > Creme? > Bite me. :-P The donuts taste better. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From chris at yonderway.com Wed Oct 23 00:30:29 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 01:30:29 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8AADE1A1-E648-11D6-8C77-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, at 12:50 AM, Dave McGuire wrote: > A used school bus...that would rock. Especially a "wired" schoolbus (or should I say "wireless"?) > I actually considered buying it at one point. My rationale was > simple: with such a vehicle, you wouldn't have to go to the > party...the party could come to YOU! :-) I think one could make a pretty wild party vehicle with a school bus, and pretty cheaply. That's not my plan, but it does sound like a fun direction. I'm thinking more along the lines of hitting the road for awhile and residing on the bus for extended periods. Sounds crazy but I guess not too crazy since the wife bought in on the idea. There is some converted schoolbus in Cali that has a crazy web site, went to Burning Man, etc. but the URL & name eludes me at the moment. It's more of a geek party bus, with crew members haphazardly joining and leaving and fulfilling certain jobs within the rolling community. Chris Hedemark Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com From david at cantrell.org.uk Wed Oct 23 03:32:01 2002 From: david at cantrell.org.uk (David Cantrell) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:32:01 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <3DB5EE28.4010308@speakeasy.net>; from nimitz@speakeasy.net on Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 07:32:40PM -0500 References: <3DB5BC68.2040105@speakeasy.net> <20021023010534.A6431@barnyard.co.uk> <3DB5EE28.4010308@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20021023093201.C9108@plough.barnyard.co.uk> On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 07:32:40PM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > And, I agree. That's why I think that the current "prediction" of global > warming is off. There's no way they know using the current information > that they can make a call of that magnitude with any clear judgement or > an accurancy IMHO of more than random chance. Yeah, I tend to ignore the scaremongers too. What is true is that we are perturbing the system, and whilst that is not necessarily going to cause long-term changes, it's pretty damned certain that the short-term effects will be noticeable. Seeing that our society is "designed" for a particular environment, changing that environment accidentally can't be a good thing. Of course, in climatologist-speak, short-term is of the order of a century so even if we put our house in order right now, we're still fucked. But we should still put our house in order anyway, in an attempt to only cause a temporary perturbation and not a change of state. -- Grand Inquisitor Reverend David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david With ... the fact that Linux has become so easy to install that certain species of bacteria are now being hired by MIS departments, what was once the domain of rigorously trained, highly specialized professionals has devolved into the Dark Land of the Monkeys. -- Greg Knauss From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Oct 23 03:36:37 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 04:36:37 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021023093201.C9108@plough.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <8BBBFE42-E662-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, at 04:32 AM, David Cantrell wrote: >> And, I agree. That's why I think that the current "prediction" of >> global >> warming is off. There's no way they know using the current >> information >> that they can make a call of that magnitude with any clear judgement >> or >> an accurancy IMHO of more than random chance. > > Yeah, I tend to ignore the scaremongers too. What is true is that we > are > perturbing the system, and whilst that is not necessarily going to > cause > long-term changes, it's pretty damned certain that the short-term > effects > will be noticeable. Seeing that our society is "designed" for a > particular > environment, changing that environment accidentally can't be a good > thing. "Ask the residents of Pompeii if they feel like a threat to the planet!" -George Carlin -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From chris at chrisbyrne.com Wed Oct 23 04:48:09 2002 From: chris at chrisbyrne.com (Chris Byrne IV) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:48:09 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <200210230948.g9N9m9wM007116@chrisbyrne.com> > My favorites are LTJ Bukem and Goa Gil. > > Peace... Sridhar I jsut bought the progression sessions double cd set in. the Live set in Japan feat. Conrad. Very cool stuff. Chris Byrne --------------------------------------- The Eyes May Be The Windows On The Soul But The Word Is The Doorway To The Mind --------------------------------------- From chris at chrisbyrne.com Wed Oct 23 04:53:57 2002 From: chris at chrisbyrne.com (Chris Byrne IV) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:53:57 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <200210230953.g9N9rvBR007815@chrisbyrne.com> > Wow...Why don't more people know about this? > > -Dave They do. In the norht of england the situation has gotten so bad with fuel prices that diesel owners are converting to veggie oil in droves. Distributors have been selling out of it constantly for months. THey've actually had to ration how much they sell. The best way of doing it is to take used fryer oil (non-lard) and add a few tablespoons per liter of white spirits and denatured alcohol. It'll actually run better than the standard diesel fuel unless you have a high perssure turbo or hihg pressure common rail injection system in which case you need to run with diesel injector cleaner in the fuel as well. Its still works out to less than $1 per gallon, and in englan where diesel is currently selling for something like 4 times that... Chris Byrne --------------------------------------- The Eyes May Be The Windows On The Soul But The Word Is The Doorway To The Mind --------------------------------------- From nimitz at speakeasy.net Wed Oct 23 06:59:45 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 06:59:45 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <3DB5BC68.2040105@speakeasy.net> <20021023010534.A6431@barnyard.co.uk> <3DB5EE28.4010308@speakeasy.net> <20021023093201.C9108@plough.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: <3DB68F31.10603@speakeasy.net> David Cantrell wrote: > Yeah, I tend to ignore the scaremongers too. What is true is that we are > perturbing the system, and whilst that is not necessarily going to cause > long-term changes, it's pretty damned certain that the short-term effects > will be noticeable. Seeing that our society is "designed" for a particular > environment, changing that environment accidentally can't be a good thing. Hpmh. And there are people trying to figure out ways to change this environment purposefully. Figure that one out. > Of course, in climatologist-speak, short-term is of the order of a century > so even if we put our house in order right now, we're still fucked. But we > should still put our house in order anyway, in an attempt to only cause > a temporary perturbation and not a change of state. Thankfully we're the mayflies of the geological timeframe. When we want to we can move more than fast enough to adapt to the situation. The problem is getting us to move fast enough. ;-) Of course all this leads me again to wonder if the inmates are running the asylum so to speak. Mike Hebel From kurt at k-huhn.com Wed Oct 23 07:50:22 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:50:22 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <200210230953.g9N9rvBR007815@chrisbyrne.com> References: <200210230953.g9N9rvBR007815@chrisbyrne.com> Message-ID: <20021023085022.0fc95dc0.kurt@k-huhn.com> "Chris Byrne IV" wrote: > > Wow...Why don't more people know about this? > > > > -Dave > > > They do. In the norht of england the situation has gotten so bad with > fuel prices that diesel owners are converting to veggie oil in droves. > Distributors have been selling out of it constantly for months. THey've > actually had to ration how much they sell. > Unfortunately, the police are also catching on, and handing out fines for running unapproved fuel. The government is afraid that they're losing out on all sorts of tax money. -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From ajwdsp at cloud9.net Wed Oct 23 08:33:29 2002 From: ajwdsp at cloud9.net (Andrew Weiss) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:33:29 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: Message-ID: <000f01c27a98$c67c7ca0$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> I've always been a bus aficionado...especially school buses. (It started when I was young). I'd like to get at least a circa 74' Carpenter body Ford and a GMC 1960's city bus (the most common form-factor in movies [Speed] and still in widespread use by many cities). I'd also like to get an RV bus... hmmm mobile data center.... hot tub....:-) The place to get used school buses is in North Carolina... They have tons of them sitting neglected in people's yards... if they aren't too rusted out or used as planters, one could easily rescue them and give em some mechanical lovin. Stuff from the 50's or 60's would be really nice to restore. Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:50 AM Subject: Re: [geeks] I really don't get it ... > On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 08:03 PM, Chris Hedemark wrote: > > The other project on the near horizon is purchasing a used school bus > > from the state surplus and converting it into an RV. If I can take > > advantage of renewable fuels for it, then I am eager to do so. > > A used school bus...that would rock. There was a school bus for sale > in Beltsville, MD for a long time...I used to pass it every day on my > way to work. It was sitting in front of a house with a "for sale" sign > on it. It was painted metallic green with a white racing stripe down > the side, with very bright chromed wheels. It looked hilarious. > > I actually considered buying it at one point. My rationale was > simple: with such a vehicle, you wouldn't have to go to the party...the > party could come to YOU! :-) > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... > St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From nimitz at speakeasy.net Wed Oct 23 08:37:57 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:37:57 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <000f01c27a98$c67c7ca0$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> Message-ID: <3DB6A635.7030101@speakeasy.net> Andrew Weiss wrote: > I've always been a bus aficionado...especially school buses. (It started > when I was young). I'd like to get at least a circa 74' Carpenter body Ford > and a GMC 1960's city bus (the most common form-factor in movies [Speed] and > still in widespread use by many cities). I'd also like to get an RV bus... > hmmm mobile data center.... hot tub....:-) The place to get used school > buses is in North Carolina... They have tons of them sitting neglected in > people's yards... if they aren't too rusted out or used as planters, one > could easily rescue them and give em some mechanical lovin. Stuff from the > 50's or 60's would be really nice to restore. I suddenly have this image of a Partridge Family colored bus with geek symbols all over it. Maybe with an electronic LED sign on th back... Mike Hebel From kris at catonic.net Wed Oct 23 09:23:33 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:23:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <3DB6A635.7030101@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Mike Hebel wrote: > I suddenly have this image of a Partridge Family colored bus with geek > symbols all over it. Maybe with an electronic LED sign on th back... *shudder* -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From ajwdsp at cloud9.net Wed Oct 23 09:37:45 2002 From: ajwdsp at cloud9.net (Andrew Weiss) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:37:45 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <000f01c27a98$c67c7ca0$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> <3DB6A635.7030101@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <00b301c27aa1$c1107600$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> > I suddenly have this image of a Partridge Family colored bus with geek > symbols all over it. Maybe with an electronic LED sign on th back... No I'd probably paint it gray or black. I even thought of taking the paint off and brushing it DeLorean style..(my other dream vehicle) It's odd they don't make more cars without paint. (the only other one I can think of is the Germany only Audi TT in brushed; that'd be sweet) Andrew From nimitz at speakeasy.net Wed Oct 23 10:41:15 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:41:15 -0600 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <000f01c27a98$c67c7ca0$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> <3DB6A635.7030101@speakeasy.net> <00b301c27aa1$c1107600$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> Message-ID: <3DB6C31B.1040404@speakeasy.net> Andrew Weiss wrote: >>I suddenly have this image of a Partridge Family colored bus with geek >>symbols all over it. Maybe with an electronic LED sign on th back... > > > No I'd probably paint it gray or black. I even thought of taking the paint > off and brushing it DeLorean style..(my other dream vehicle) It's odd they > don't make more cars without paint. (the only other one I can think of is > the Germany only Audi TT in brushed; that'd be sweet) > I don't know either. It would seem to me that an anodized aluminum body would look better and last longer. That's another thing - why paint? Why not powder-coating? It would eventually cost the same and last much longer and be more flake resistant. Probably a "planned obsolescense" thing. Mike Hebel From kurt at k-huhn.com Wed Oct 23 10:46:47 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:46:47 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <3DB6C31B.1040404@speakeasy.net> References: <000f01c27a98$c67c7ca0$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> <3DB6A635.7030101@speakeasy.net> <00b301c27aa1$c1107600$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> <3DB6C31B.1040404@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20021023114647.60496c12.kurt@k-huhn.com> Mike Hebel wrote: > I don't know either. It would seem to me that an anodized aluminum body > would look better and last longer. That's another thing - why paint? > Why not powder-coating? It would eventually cost the same and last much > longer and be more flake resistant. > You'd need one big ass oven to powder coat a bus. A car might be doable, but still - big ass oven. There's also the problem with powder coat application - paint is easier to apply in environments where there's mild air circulation. But you're right - powder coating is far more durable, and looks way better also. -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From chris at yonderway.com Wed Oct 23 10:57:34 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:57:34 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021023114647.60496c12.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <252D87C8-E6A0-11D6-A7F7-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, at 11:46 AM, Kurt Huhn wrote: > You'd need one big ass oven to powder coat a bus. A car might be > doable, > but still - big ass oven. There's also the problem with powder coat > application - paint is easier to apply in environments where there's > mild > air circulation. You beat me to it, and said pretty much the same things I was going to suggest. Paint is easier to apply in an assembly line fashion as well. Simpler process, cheaper equipment. Many parts aren't even sprayed but rather "dunked" in paint. > But you're right - powder coating is far more durable, and looks way > better > also. I never really thought of powdercoating the body parts but it looks darned good on undercarriage parts and protects the parts much better than paint would. Hmmmm if these Alphastation cases "decompose" any more maybe I ought to move their guts to a powdercoated aluminum case. :-) Chris Hedemark Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (Darwin) iD8DBQE9tsbzYPuF4Zq9lvYRAnHaAJ4oYGPlOXSdaVzLC/kDCFfYbnnW0ACgr1zf fjl7pf0NPdEPyaFAhIBxuec= =MS4s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Wed Oct 23 11:34:42 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:34:42 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <00b301c27aa1$c1107600$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> References: <000f01c27a98$c67c7ca0$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> <3DB6A635.7030101@speakeasy.net> <00b301c27aa1$c1107600$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> Message-ID: <20021023163442.GA16669@cs.millersville.edu> On Wed, Oct 23, 2002 at 10:37:45AM -0400, Andrew Weiss wrote: > > I suddenly have this image of a Partridge Family colored bus with geek > > symbols all over it. Maybe with an electronic LED sign on th back... > > No I'd probably paint it gray or black. I even thought of taking the paint Matte black, all windows as heavily tinted as legal in your local. -- Joshua D. Boyd From kris at catonic.net Wed Oct 23 12:48:51 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:48:51 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021023163442.GA16669@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > Matte black, all windows as heavily tinted as legal in your local. hope you're planning on installing a _lot_ of AC. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From chris at yonderway.com Wed Oct 23 13:02:24 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:02:24 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <959D6D90-E6B1-11D6-A7F7-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, at 01:48 PM, Kris Kirby wrote: > On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Joshua D Boyd wrote: >> Matte black, all windows as heavily tinted as legal in your local. > > hope you're planning on installing a _lot_ of AC. A lot of school bus conversions use dark colors on the sides of the bus, but the roof is white. Even a light non-white color on the roof is supposed to make a big difference (just like with a swimming pool). Chris Hedemark Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (Darwin) iD8DBQE9tuQ2YPuF4Zq9lvYRAl/DAKCGKQ5qkH/2NkSiUgDtHEeI3Lr8RwCcDfMy 1RgeRDzAcZuHG7mq4uhkvkY= =tEKa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ajwdsp at cloud9.net Wed Oct 23 14:25:19 2002 From: ajwdsp at cloud9.net (Andrew Weiss) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:25:19 -0400 Subject: Bus Conversions...was [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <959D6D90-E6B1-11D6-A7F7-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> Message-ID: <003101c27ac9$f9f01070$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> My last girlfriend works at a magazine called Bus Conversions Magazine as the editor... it's pretty cool. Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Hedemark" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] I really don't get it ... > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, at 01:48 PM, Kris Kirby wrote: > > > On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > >> Matte black, all windows as heavily tinted as legal in your local. > > > > hope you're planning on installing a _lot_ of AC. > > A lot of school bus conversions use dark colors on the sides of the > bus, but the roof is white. Even a light non-white color on the roof > is supposed to make a big difference (just like with a swimming pool). > > Chris Hedemark > Hillsborough, NC > http://yonderway.com > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (Darwin) > > iD8DBQE9tuQ2YPuF4Zq9lvYRAl/DAKCGKQ5qkH/2NkSiUgDtHEeI3Lr8RwCcDfMy > 1RgeRDzAcZuHG7mq4uhkvkY= > =tEKa > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From kchris_iii at hotmail.com Wed Oct 23 14:31:05 2002 From: kchris_iii at hotmail.com (Chris David) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:31:05 +0000 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user Message-ID: Hi How to create a root equivalent user? I dont want to set the uid as 0 becasue that was like giving root account access. Is there any way to do this? The eq. user should have access to usr directory (say install softwares) Thanks Chris _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Oct 23 14:55:37 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:55:37 -0400 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <665148ED-E6C1-11D6-ABFF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, at 03:31 PM, Chris David wrote: > How to create a root equivalent user? I dont want to set the uid as 0 > becasue that was like giving root account access. Is there any way to > do this? The eq. user should have access to usr directory (say install > softwares) Well, being uid 0 is what makes root "root" in the first place. It's really the only way to do it. So you're nervous about "giving root account access" while at the same time you want a "root equivalent user"? Uhhhhhh... -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Oct 23 14:55:16 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:55:16 -0500 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021023195516.GF29580@mrbill.net> On Wed, Oct 23, 2002 at 07:31:05PM +0000, Chris David wrote: > Hi > How to create a root equivalent user? I dont want to set the uid as 0 > becasue that was like giving root account access. Is there any way to do > this? The eq. user should have access to usr directory (say install > softwares) Look into "sudo". Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From kris at catonic.net Wed Oct 23 14:59:35 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:59:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Chris David wrote: > How to create a root equivalent user? I dont want to set the uid as 0 > becasue that was like giving root account access. Is there any way to do > this? The eq. user should have access to usr directory (say install > softwares) This can be grounds for termination in some non-clued companies. Don't ask me how I know this... -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From woods at weird.com Wed Oct 23 15:12:40 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <20021023195516.GF29580@mrbill.net> References: <20021023195516.GF29580@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20021023201240.4FA64A@proven.weird.com> [ On Wednesday, October 23, 2002 at 14:55:16 (-0500), Bill Bradford wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] root equivalent user > > On Wed, Oct 23, 2002 at 07:31:05PM +0000, Chris David wrote: > > Hi > > How to create a root equivalent user? I dont want to set the uid as 0 > > becasue that was like giving root account access. Is there any way to do > > this? The eq. user should have access to usr directory (say install > > softwares) > > Look into "sudo". That won't help in this particular situation. Giving sudo access is almost always equivalent to giving root access. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From sjh at waroffice.net Wed Oct 23 15:32:56 2002 From: sjh at waroffice.net (Steven Hill) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:32:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <20021023201240.4FA64A@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: > That won't help in this particular situation. Giving sudo access is > almost always equivalent to giving root access. Uhh, not if you tie it to particular commands, or other priviledged user (such as runtime accounts...) I see the almost always, btw. Methinks sudo is most likely to be the best solution. -- Steven Hill This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. From woods at weird.com Wed Oct 23 16:29:45 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: References: <20021023201240.4FA64A@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20021023212945.61AB5A@proven.weird.com> [ On Wednesday, October 23, 2002 at 15:32:56 (-0500), Steven Hill wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] root equivalent user > > > That won't help in this particular situation. Giving sudo access is > > almost always equivalent to giving root access. > > Uhh, not if you tie it to particular commands, or other priviledged user > (such as runtime accounts...) > > I see the almost always, btw. > > Methinks sudo is most likely to be the best solution. I would strongly recommend that nobody ever use sudo unless they have a _VERY_ deep and complete understanding of not only the Unix Security Model, but also a deep and broad understanding of the intended system(s) and the security policies which apply to them. Sudo almost always gives a false sense of security -- i.e. it appears to be more secure than it really is. I've never yet encountered an installation where sudo was both useful enough to be worth using and maintaining and yet was secure at the same time. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 23 21:48:47 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021023085022.0fc95dc0.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <20021024024847.7429.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kurt Huhn wrote: > "Chris Byrne IV" wrote: > Unfortunately, the police are also catching on, and handing out fines > for running unapproved fuel. The government is afraid that they're > losing out on all sorts of tax money. They *are* losing out - the taxes on approved fuel helps pay for the roads. You can get "un-taxed" (or lower-taxed) fuel for use on vehicles that do not travel on the highways (like construction equipment, race cars, etc.)... Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 23 21:57:35 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <000f01c27a98$c67c7ca0$a42d19ac@enpointe.com> Message-ID: <20021024025735.13212.qmail@web9306.mail.yahoo.com> A bunch of counter-culture folks, travelling around in a converted school bus, equipped to the gills with exotic electronic equipment.. Uhm, reminds me of a book I once read... ;^) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553380648/qid=1035428092/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-8433252-9149526?v=glance Lionel --- Andrew Weiss wrote: > I'd also like to get an RV bus... > hmmm mobile data center.... hot tub....:-) > > I actually considered buying it at one point. My rationale was > > simple: with such a vehicle, you wouldn't have to go to the > > party... the party could come to YOU! :-) ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From vance at neurotica.com Thu Oct 24 00:38:45 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 01:38:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Create a new group, run chgrp -R /usr, and add that user to that group, Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Chris David wrote: > Hi > How to create a root equivalent user? I dont want to set the uid as 0 > becasue that was like giving root account access. Is there any way to do > this? The eq. user should have access to usr directory (say install > softwares) > > Thanks > Chris > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From vance at neurotica.com Thu Oct 24 00:39:14 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance at neurotica.com) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 01:39:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, and I forgot that you also have to do chmod g+w /usr. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Chris David wrote: > Hi > How to create a root equivalent user? I dont want to set the uid as 0 > becasue that was like giving root account access. Is there any way to do > this? The eq. user should have access to usr directory (say install > softwares) > > Thanks > Chris > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Oct 24 00:44:59 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 01:44:59 -0400 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 01:38 AM, vance at neurotica.com wrote: > Create a new group, run chgrp -R /usr, and add that user to > that group, Which, of course, will break all setgid programs in /usr. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From chris at yonderway.com Wed Oct 23 23:15:03 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 00:15:03 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021024025735.13212.qmail@web9306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2B572A6E-E707-11D6-BCC4-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ah I found it... http://www.cyberbuss.com On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, at 10:57 PM, Lionel Peterson wrote: > A bunch of counter-culture folks, travelling around in a converted > school bus, equipped to the gills with exotic electronic equipment.. > > Uhm, reminds me of a book I once read... ;^) > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553380648/ > qid=1035428092/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-8433252-9149526?v=glance > > Lionel > --- Andrew Weiss wrote: > >> I'd also like to get an RV bus... >> hmmm mobile data center.... hot tub....:-) > >>> I actually considered buying it at one point. My rationale was >>> simple: with such a vehicle, you wouldn't have to go to the >>> party... the party could come to YOU! :-) > > > ===== > Lionel > > "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten > programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" > Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks > > Chris Hedemark Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (Darwin) iD8DBQE9t3GZYPuF4Zq9lvYRAu8lAKDVG03+5sPMh7h9jh6ouB1wvVk/5gCgxZEt zSjhMHQATULdfwVQTXLMxEU= =K16k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Chris Hedemark Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com From chris at chrisbyrne.com Thu Oct 24 06:34:00 2002 From: chris at chrisbyrne.com (Chris Byrne IV) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:34:00 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <200210241134.g9OBY0qY010366@chrisbyrne.com> > A bunch of counter-culture folks, travelling around in a converted > school bus, equipped to the gills with exotic electronic equipment.. > > Uhm, reminds me of a book I once read... ;^) > > > Lionel Actually It reminds me of a differnet book. Anyone here read Callahans Key? Chris Byrne --------------------------------------- The Eyes May Be The Windows On The Soul But The Word Is The Doorway To The Mind --------------------------------------- From nimitz at speakeasy.net Thu Oct 24 07:42:08 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 07:42:08 -0500 Subject: [geeks] LOL! Thankfully I've never wired like this... Message-ID: <3DB7EAA0.1030803@speakeasy.net> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/27768.html Mike Hebel From caleb at webninja.com Thu Oct 24 08:50:59 2002 From: caleb at webninja.com (Caleb Shay) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:50:59 -0400 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user References: Message-ID: <3DB7FAC3.5080209@webninja.com> Depends on the *nix you are using, and on the filesystem. If everything is in order, the best way to do this is via ACLs, ie: setfacl -m u:someuser:w /usr (under Linux with POSIX ACLs on either ext2, ext3, JFS, or XFS) Caleb Chris David wrote: > Hi > How to create a root equivalent user? I dont want to set the uid as 0 > becasue that was like giving root account access. Is there any way to > do this? The eq. user should have access to usr directory (say install > softwares) > > Thanks > Chris > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From caleb at webninja.com Thu Oct 24 08:51:59 2002 From: caleb at webninja.com (Caleb Shay) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:51:59 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <200210241134.g9OBY0qY010366@chrisbyrne.com> Message-ID: <3DB7FAFF.5040600@webninja.com> I was thinking the same thing. Caleb Chris Byrne IV wrote: >>A bunch of counter-culture folks, travelling around in a converted >>school bus, equipped to the gills with exotic electronic equipment.. >> >>Uhm, reminds me of a book I once read... ;^) >> >> >>Lionel > > > Actually It reminds me of a differnet book. Anyone here read Callahans > Key? > > Chris Byrne > --------------------------------------- > The Eyes May Be The Windows On The Soul > But The Word Is The Doorway To The Mind > --------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Oct 24 09:44:34 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:44:34 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <200210241134.g9OBY0qY010366@chrisbyrne.com> References: <200210241134.g9OBY0qY010366@chrisbyrne.com> Message-ID: <20021024144434.GC22504@mrbill.net> On Thu, Oct 24, 2002 at 12:34:00PM +0100, Chris Byrne IV wrote: > Actually It reminds me of a differnet book. Anyone here read Callahans > Key? Of course. people on these lists remind me of the Callahans denziens. 8-) Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From chris at chrisbyrne.com Thu Oct 24 10:29:48 2002 From: chris at chrisbyrne.com (Chris Byrne IV) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:29:48 +0100 Subject: Callahans was Re: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <200210241529.g9OFTmL2028357@chrisbyrne.com> > Of course. people on these lists remind me of the Callahans > denziens. 8-) > > Bill One of the many reasons I've spent most of the last ... jesus two years... minus the last few months here. Chris From woods at weird.com Thu Oct 24 11:33:10 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> [ On Thursday, October 24, 2002 at 01:38:45 (-0400), vance at neurotica.com wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] root equivalent user > > Create a new group, run chgrp -R /usr, and add that user to > that group, I hope that wasn't meant seariously. Talk about a recipie for disaster as well as being a barn door wide enough to drive the whole galaxy through. Anyone who's done this may as well just bite the bullet and re-install now -- you'll likely never get things back to normal and functioning properly without doing so. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From nimitz at speakeasy.net Thu Oct 24 12:27:22 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:27:22 -0500 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> Greg A. Woods wrote: > [ On Thursday, October 24, 2002 at 01:38:45 (-0400), vance at neurotica.com wrote: ] > >>Subject: Re: [geeks] root equivalent user >> >>Create a new group, run chgrp -R /usr, and add that user to >>that group, > > > I hope that wasn't meant seariously. You know Greg - I don't think I've ever seen you accept anybody's info except your own. Don't you think that's a little strange? > Talk about a recipie for disaster as well as being a barn door wide > enough to drive the whole galaxy through. Correct me if I'm wrong but when a user needs root access doesn't that mean that _THEY_ are the physical security issue? You've wasted three days of this back and forth stuff shooting down everyone's ideas on whether or not to basically make another user root. The problem is not one of limited access it's one of judgement and trust. As for installing software - if they're not trustworthy enough for full root why in the hell are they installing software for everybody anyway? > Anyone who's done this may as well just bite the bullet and re-install > now -- you'll likely never get things back to normal and functioning > properly without doing so. Your problem will still be the same one no matter how many times you spin disks at it. Mike Hebel From woods at weird.com Thu Oct 24 14:03:21 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> [[ I'll leave your lame ad hominem attack attempts alone -- for now ]] [ On Thursday, October 24, 2002 at 12:27:22 (-0500), Mike Hebel wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] root equivalent user > > Correct me if I'm wrong but when a user needs root access doesn't that > mean that _THEY_ are the physical security issue? That just doesn't make sense, nor does it seem to fit in any way with the orginal question here. > You've wasted three > days of this back and forth stuff shooting down everyone's ideas on > whether or not to basically make another user root. No, I don't think so -- I've been trying to help people avoid the pitfalls of trying to _not_ give another user full root privileges. > The problem is not > one of limited access it's one of judgement and trust. Of course. That's why the solution is _NOT_ one of making really stupid hacks to the system (including in most circumstances, installing sudo). > As for > installing software - if they're not trustworthy enough for full root > why in the hell are they installing software for everybody anyway? That's a damn good question. That's the point I've been trying to get across here. Implied in my original answer was the suggestion that the person in question had to be trusted with full root access regardless. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Oct 24 14:52:29 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:52:29 -0400 Subject: [geeks] STL files for CAD work: urgent help needed Message-ID: <20CD7771-E78A-11D6-ACDF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Hi folks. I have some STL files from an unknown CAD package (possibly AutoCAD) that I need to read into BRL-CAD. BRL-CAD comes with an STL file import utility, but it only handles the ASCII version of the STL format, and the files I have are in the binary version of the format. Does anyone here have any way to convert a binary STL file to an ASCII STL file? Perhaps with a CAD package that can read one and write the other? This is a work-related issue of some importance, so I could really use some help with this. Any assistance or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Oct 24 15:50:11 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:50:11 -0400 Subject: [geeks] STL files: solution found Message-ID: <30679804-E792-11D6-ACDF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Thanks to Brian Dunbar, I've converted the binary STL files to ASCII and successfully pulled them into BRL-CAD. The utility I used can be found here: http://www.math.iastate.edu/burkardt/g_src/ivcon/ivcon.html It doesn't work properly on big-endian machines, but on little-endian processors it works fine. I'll be notifying the author of the code. Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From nimitz at speakeasy.net Thu Oct 24 16:56:48 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:56:48 -0500 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> Greg A. Woods wrote: > [[ I'll leave your lame ad hominem attack attempts alone -- for now ]] It wasn't an attack - merely an observation and a question. > That just doesn't make sense, nor does it seem to fit in any way with > the orginal question here. The issue is that you've got a user that needs root access. From the tone of the original message it is implied that they do not want to give that user root access. Thus it is a question of user security - physical because it deals with a person not software. > >> You've wasted three >>days of this back and forth stuff shooting down everyone's ideas on >>whether or not to basically make another user root. > > > No, I don't think so -- I've been trying to help people avoid the > pitfalls of trying to _not_ give another user full root privileges. > Yet you fail to accept anything but your view as valid. There are other ways of doing things than the "Greg A. Woods Approved School of Admin". I think you're the only admin that I've ever met that doesn't approve of sudo. >> The problem is not >>one of limited access it's one of judgement and trust. > > > Of course. That's why the solution is _NOT_ one of making really stupid > hacks to the system (including in most circumstances, installing sudo). Really stupid how Greg? People have been using sudo as well as other methods for quite some time without problems. I think you're being too security conscious about this subject. Remember - in the end there is no such thing as a secure computer. Period. >> As for >>installing software - if they're not trustworthy enough for full root >>why in the hell are they installing software for everybody anyway? > > > That's a damn good question. That's the point I've been trying to get > across here. > > Implied in my original answer was the suggestion that the person in > question had to be trusted with full root access regardless. > True but several "No you shouldn't do that!" answers do not help to solve the problem. Mike Hebel From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Thu Oct 24 17:59:22 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:59:22 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Excel Message-ID: <20021024225922.GA27544@cs.millersville.edu> Anyone care to comment on modularize excel development, specifically of complex formulas in cells (as opposed to writing macros)? I find myself writing formulas like this '=IF(AND(Vars!$B$35=TRUE, and(not(Vars!$B$17="I4"),and(not(Vars!$B$17="I6"),not(Vars!$B$17="I10")))), "Indented", "")' in cells, and wish there was a way to simplify them to make them more readable, maintainable, and debugable. The whole thing is somewhat embarassing, but nescesarry for now. I wish the whole thing would be redone in say in Java, C++, smalltalk, whatever windows platform you pick, but even if I redid it for free in my own time, it wouldn't be accepted for reasons of too much momentum behind excel. -- Joshua D. Boyd From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Oct 24 19:12:49 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:12:49 -0400 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <7EB83563-E7AE-11D6-ACDF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 05:56 PM, Mike Hebel wrote: > Yet you fail to accept anything but your view as valid. There are > other ways of doing things than the "Greg A. Woods Approved School of > Admin". > I think you're the only admin that I've ever met that doesn't approve > of sudo. Well...I don't really approve of sudo...but for different reasons than Greg's. I just don't see the point of it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "PC users only know two 'solutions'... St. Petersburg, FL reboot and upgrade." -Jonathan Patschke From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 24 19:37:00 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 17:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <2B572A6E-E707-11D6-BCC4-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> Message-ID: <20021025003700.65469.qmail@web9301.mail.yahoo.com> Actually, I was thinking of The Merry Pranksters, which led to a little band named The Greatful Dead. Lionel --- Chris Hedemark wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Ah I found it... > > http://www.cyberbuss.com > > On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, at 10:57 PM, Lionel Peterson wrote: > > > A bunch of counter-culture folks, travelling around in a converted > > school bus, equipped to the gills with exotic electronic > > equipment.. > > > > Uhm, reminds me of a book I once read... ;^) > > > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553380648/ > > qid=1035428092/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-8433252-9149526?v=glance ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From jp at celestrion.net Thu Oct 24 19:44:01 2002 From: jp at celestrion.net (Jonathan C Patschke) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 19:44:01 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Excel In-Reply-To: <20021024225922.GA27544@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 05:59 PM, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > I find myself writing formulas like this '=IF(AND(Vars!$B$35=TRUE, > and(not(Vars!$B$17="I4"),and(not(Vars!$B$17="I6"),not(Vars!$B$17="I10") > ))), > "Indented", "")' in cells, and wish there was a way to simplify them to > make them more readable, maintainable, and debugable. The easiest way to do things like that is to compose your complicated functions in VBA[0] and then export them to the spreadsheet so that you can do "=NiftyFunc(A4:A6, A5:A7)". It's possible to do scary things in VBA. I wrote a piece of software that evaluated the proficiency of students' reading comprehension for an ESL program years ago. I don't recall exactly what you need to click on to invoke the VBA editor, but I could install Office 97 into VPC, if it doesn't stick out to you. [0] Warning: If you did not install the "extra help" or "more help" (depending on the version of Excel) VBA files, the documentation will approximate uselessness. If you did install it, it will merely be impossibly frustrating. -- Jonathan C. Patschke Celestrion Information Systems Thorndale, TX From woods at weird.com Thu Oct 24 19:46:58 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> [ On Thursday, October 24, 2002 at 16:56:48 (-0500), Mike Hebel wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] root equivalent user > > I think you're the only admin that I've ever met that doesn't approve of > sudo. Then I think you still have a tremendous amount of learning left to do on this subject. I suggest you start by learning just how much of a folly sudo really is. You might start by looking into various research projects and software packages that have been designed specifically to analyze and fix the very serious problems inherent in sudo. > Really stupid how Greg? Just really stupid. > People have been using sudo as well as other > methods for quite some time without problems. Yes, and a fool is born at least every minute too. Some are easily parted from their money, and some are easily snowed into a false sense of security. I agree fully that you cannot ever achieve 100% security on any computer system, but you sure as heck can do a lot better than believing you are getting one thing when you're really getting another with sudo. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Thu Oct 24 19:58:48 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:58:48 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Excel In-Reply-To: References: <20021024225922.GA27544@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021025005848.GA31606@cs.millersville.edu> On Thu, Oct 24, 2002 at 07:44:01PM -0500, Jonathan C Patschke wrote: > The easiest way to do things like that is to compose your complicated > functions in VBA[0] and then export them to the spreadsheet so that you > can do "=NiftyFunc(A4:A6, A5:A7)". It's possible to do scary things in > VBA. I wrote a piece of software that evaluated the proficiency of > students' reading comprehension for an ESL program years ago. > > I don't recall exactly what you need to click on to invoke the VBA > editor, but I could install Office 97 into VPC, if it doesn't stick out > to you. Yeah, I know how to use VBA. This system has about 2000 lines of VBA setting it up to do reporting (crystal reports and competitors not being flexible enough to do what we wanted), but I try to avoid making fundamental modifications to the system that will only apply to one report. Writing a single function or 3 to call wouldn't cause problems. I guess I just need to figure out how to export functions from VBA to excel. I'll take a stab at it tonight or tomorrow night (blech, working for free, but I don't have the help files on my work notebook, see below). > [0] Warning: If you did not install the "extra help" or "more help" > (depending on the version of Excel) VBA files, the documentation will > approximate uselessness. If you did install it, it will merely be > impossibly frustrating. It isn't installed, and I can't install it. This is for work, and not being in the IT department, and being the bottom of the food chain and all. Not allowed to install any software (although I went and put putty on a CD anyway for the sake of my sanity). -- Joshua D. Boyd From jp at celestrion.net Thu Oct 24 20:04:31 2002 From: jp at celestrion.net (Jonathan C Patschke) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:04:31 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Excel In-Reply-To: <20021025005848.GA31606@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 07:58 PM, Joshua D Boyd wrote: > It isn't installed, and I can't install it. The "installation" involves copying a couple of .hlp files and their indices to well-known locations. The files aren't that big, and can be placed anywhere (say, inside your home directory) if you can't drop them in their well-known locations. The only negative effect would be that you'd have to launch the help files from the shell, instead of from inside Office. Seriously, though, coding in VBA without access to the reference manuals is maddening, since Microsoft seems to have no consistent naming convention for functions or objects. Email me privately with which version of Office you're using, and I'll tell you from where you may obtain the proper help files. -- Jonathan C. Patschke Celestrion Information Systems Thorndale, TX From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 24 20:34:02 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:34:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <00cc01c2799d$eb1bf6e0$cb3ca8c0@orctel.internal> Message-ID: <20021025013402.15332.qmail@web9304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Will Mc Donald wrote: > From: "William S." > > > I really don't get it. At what point in time > > did "D J's" become considered as celebrities > > and artists. > > Sometime in the mid-ninties I'd say. When dance music became more > predominant. What was that dreck they played in the '70s - "Work Music"? ;^) I thought most music was for dancing (either mentally or physically ;^) Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From kurt at k-huhn.com Thu Oct 24 21:18:06 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:18:06 -0400 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20021024221806.6a07ccf4.kurt@k-huhn.com> woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) wrote: > > Then I think you still have a tremendous amount of learning left to do > on this subject. I suggest you start by learning just how much of a > folly sudo really is. You might start by looking into various > research projects and software packages that have been designed > specifically to analyze and fix the very serious problems inherent in > sudo. > So, what would *you* do, Greg? The world awaits your wisdom... -- Kurt "I remember that I've got a solid base of worms and kurt at k-huhn.com ant eggs. I puke like a hero all night long." -- Tony Bourdain From chris at yonderway.com Thu Oct 24 22:48:27 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 23:48:27 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Messy Marvin's server room Message-ID: <9EE965A6-E7CC-11D6-BDED-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/media/920.jpg Chris Hedemark Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (Darwin) iD8DBQE9uL8RYPuF4Zq9lvYRAjdXAKCNiJl7+QM8KPYaKykm87uLiDH0FgCfU+W0 JEPuhSTTURvg1Xche0336ck= =BSfH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dave at cca.org Thu Oct 24 23:23:55 2002 From: dave at cca.org (dave at cca.org) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 00:23:55 EDT Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <20021025003700.65469.qmail@web9301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02425002355.dave.2479@cca.org> lionel4287 at yahoo.com writes: >Actually, I was thinking of The Merry Pranksters, which led to a little >band named The Greatful Dead. But aside from that, they were cool. :-) ------ David Fischer ------- dave at cca.org ------- http://www.cca.org ------ ----------- When Heaven is full, the dead shall walk the earth. ----------- From woods at weird.com Fri Oct 25 00:18:42 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 01:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <20021024221806.6a07ccf4.kurt@k-huhn.com> References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> <20021024221806.6a07ccf4.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <20021025051842.51B69A@proven.weird.com> [ On Thursday, October 24, 2002 at 22:18:06 (-0400), Kurt Huhn wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] root equivalent user > > So, what would *you* do, Greg? The world awaits your wisdom... Well first of all I write policies that deal with these issues and which dovetail into overall security policies for the organisation as a whole. Generally speaking though I trust people with the root password when necessary, though of course only after doing whatever might be appropriate for a background check and after giving them any remedial instruction and reminders that might be necessary. Where changing the root password is inconvenient (from a security perspective) I create a new account with UID==0 and assign it a unique new password that I give to the person. When that person only needs root access temporarily (eg. as a contractor or temporary assistant) then I change the root/altroot password after they're done (or just lock the altroot account until it's needed again). In larger networked environments where technically competent people can be trusted with root access to their own workstations then I use Kerberos and assign root instances to each user (while keeping the real root password for sysadmins only). I usually do not allow direct root logins except on the console (or other trusted hard-wired terminals), and then only in emergencies. Everyone must login to their own personal and unique accounts and then they must su. Personal accounts of those in the wheel group must be kept just as secure as the root account must be kept. (I would consider direct root logins via ssh with strong public key authentication only and to unique per-person UID==0 accounts, and disallow su in such a situation, if the situation required what little extra accountabilty and control this offers and also to avoid some risk of vulnerabilities in the on-system accounts of the administrators -- they would only use private and highly trusted workstations to connect to the target system.) In clustered server environments build an administrator-only server. Trusted users on that server are allowed to start jobs on any other server using only host-based authentication. If untrusted people might have any type of access to the LAN in such environments then I implement an administrative LAN and host-auth'ed connections must goes over the admin-only LAN. Of course the devil is in the details and it would take a rather thick book to write them all out (and I use several such books as references myself! :-). Accountability is key and is as important as authentication and authorisation controls and integrity, yet it's the weakest link in the average unix(-like) system today, and often just as weak a link in real-world security too. Just as Mike said, you can't have absolute security. But then security isn't a state that you reach, or even really a level that you can balance with a risk assessment -- it's a state of mind and a way of doing things. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From chris at chrisbyrne.com Fri Oct 25 03:15:19 2002 From: chris at chrisbyrne.com (Chris Byrne IV) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:15:19 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <200210250815.g9P8FJIK011362@chrisbyrne.com> Ahh yes but lets not foget the in between step.. what was it called, the sticky wizards or sumtin like that. Basically Jerry Garcia making an entirely unnecessary excuse to have cool parties with shoeboxes full of weed. > Actually, I was thinking of The Merry Pranksters, which led to a little > band named The Greatful Dead. > > Lionel > Chris Byrne --------------------------------------- The Eyes May Be The Windows On The Soul But The Word Is The Doorway To The Mind --------------------------------------- From chris at chrisbyrne.com Fri Oct 25 03:31:51 2002 From: chris at chrisbyrne.com (Chris Byrne IV) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:31:51 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <200210250831.g9P8VpLD012440@chrisbyrne.com> > What was that dreck they played in the '70s - "Work Music"? ;^) > > I thought most music was for dancing (either mentally or physically ;^) > > Lionel Personally I think there are four or five basic types of music common out there right now. Hardcore Dance music which is made exclusivley for dancing, i.e. hard house, drum & bass etc... Hardcore instrumental music which is made primarily for listening quietly, concentrating, appreciating fully etc... Most classical music, some modern folk instrumental, intrumental metal, dream theater, Jo Satirani, Eric Johnson, classical guitar pieces and the like. Semi-dance music. Basically pop music with dance overtones or dance remixes of pop, disco, and other lyrical dance music Music that has lyrics primarily to help you remember the music. Most metal, hard rock, rock, and pop are in this vein wether the artist realizes it or not. Lyrics set to music to help you remember the lyrics. Anything that Bob Dylan ever wrote for example along with most of the doors, leonard cohen etc... Basically most modern folk. 0h and geek rock too. I mean lets face it, One Week is a very cool 4 minute story/joke set to music (as is everything the barenakedladies ever did) Chris Byrne --------------------------------------- The Eyes May Be The Windows On The Soul But The Word Is The Doorway To The Mind --------------------------------------- From david at cantrell.org.uk Fri Oct 25 04:45:41 2002 From: david at cantrell.org.uk (David Cantrell) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:45:41 +0100 Subject: [geeks] Excel In-Reply-To: <20021025005848.GA31606@cs.millersville.edu>; from jdboyd@cs.millersville.edu on Thu, Oct 24, 2002 at 08:58:48PM -0400 References: <20021024225922.GA27544@cs.millersville.edu> <20021025005848.GA31606@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <20021025104541.A3212@plough.barnyard.co.uk> On Thu, Oct 24, 2002 at 07:44:01PM -0500, Jonathan C Patschke wrote: > The easiest way to do things like that is to compose your complicated > functions in VBA[0] and then export them to the spreadsheet so that you > can do "=NiftyFunc(A4:A6, A5:A7)"... That's what the character sheet I use for my AD&D characters does. Don't suppose you know how I can get at the function definition to fix it? Got a couple of bugs with multi-class characters. -- Grand Inquisitor Reverend David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david 23.5 degrees of axial tilt is the reason for the season From jp at celestrion.net Fri Oct 25 04:55:04 2002 From: jp at celestrion.net (Jonathan C. Patschke) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 04:55:04 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Excel In-Reply-To: <20021025104541.A3212@plough.barnyard.co.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, David Cantrell wrote: > That's what the character sheet I use for my AD&D characters does. Don't > suppose you know how I can get at the function definition to fix it? Got > a couple of bugs with multi-class characters. My memory's a bit fuzzy, but I think the easiest way is to go into Tools->Macros and tell Excel that you want to edit an existing macro. That should toss you in the VBA editor. From there, you can view/edit any function or subroutine defined in the sheet. I'm sure there's a shortcut that'll toss you right into the editor, but the braincell containing that data has been reallocated to hold that yummy muffin recipe that SWMBO gave me. -- Jonathan Patschke "you know, there are people who like having potatoes and jellyjars shoved up their asses. there are also people who like coding in c. at any rate, why not pay somebody to hack your c instead of taking the jellyjar in your ass?" --alex j avriette From dave at cca.org Fri Oct 25 06:12:27 2002 From: dave at cca.org (dave at cca.org) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 07:12:27 EDT Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <02425071227.dave.11296@cca.org> chris at chrisbyrne.com writes: >Personally I think there are four or five basic types of music common >out there right now. You're missing the really hardcore music. Hardcore, death metal, noise, etc. Music to riot to. ------ David Fischer ------- dave at cca.org ------- http://www.cca.org ------ ----------- When Heaven is full, the dead shall walk the earth. ----------- From chris at chrisbyrne.com Fri Oct 25 06:46:13 2002 From: chris at chrisbyrne.com (Chris Byrne IV) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:46:13 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <200210251146.g9PBkDXt026213@chrisbyrne.com> > You're missing the really hardcore music. Hardcore, death metal, > noise, etc. Music to riot to. > > ------ David Fischer Good point. I forgot to list emotional music. That is music created to create or enhance specific emotions or reactions. Chillout moods, death metal, etc... I was just introduced to a band called Spiral Architect a few weeks back. They're kind of a cross between prog and death metal. Probably the best serious hardcore metal I've heard in a long time. Chris Byrne From chris at chrisbyrne.com Fri Oct 25 06:49:53 2002 From: chris at chrisbyrne.com (Chris Byrne IV) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:49:53 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <200210251149.g9PBnrCN026488@chrisbyrne.com> > You're missing the really hardcore music. Hardcore, death metal, > noise, etc. Music to riot to. > > ------ David Fischer Good point. I forgot to list emotional music. That is music created to create or enhance specific emotions or reactions. Chillout moods, death metal, etc... I was just introduced to a band called Spiral Architect a few weeks back. They're kind of a cross between prog and death metal. Probably the best serious hardcore metal I've heard in a long time. Chris Byrne From kurt at k-huhn.com Fri Oct 25 08:32:31 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:32:31 -0400 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <20021025051842.51B69A@proven.weird.com> References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> <20021024221806.6a07ccf4.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025051842.51B69A@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20021025093231.5fe36fc8.kurt@k-huhn.com> On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 01:18:42 -0400 (EDT) woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) wrote: > > Just as Mike said, you can't have absolute security. But then security > isn't a state that you reach, or even really a level that you can > balance with a risk assessment -- it's a state of mind and a way of > doing things. > See, that's what you should have done the first time - instead of telling someone that what they use is stupid, or the procedure wrong, or the policy flawed. Contribute to the discussion, man. Until you offer *constructive* critisism and helpful suggestions, you'll simply be labeled as a self rightous and arrogant bastard. Also, keep in mind that your method is not the appropriate one for all situations. Keep an open mind. For instance, for a company of less than a certain size, the method you describe above is extremely time consuming for little benefit. In cases such as this, "good enough" is usally good enough. -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Fri Oct 25 09:16:26 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:16:26 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <200210250815.g9P8FJIK011362@chrisbyrne.com> References: <200210250815.g9P8FJIK011362@chrisbyrne.com> Message-ID: <20021025141626.GD24709@cs.millersville.edu> On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 09:15:19AM +0100, Chris Byrne IV wrote: > Ahh yes but lets not foget the in between step.. what was it called, > the sticky wizards or sumtin like that. I thought it was "The Warlocks", which did a reunion show in... 1993? -- Joshua D. Boyd From woods at weird.com Fri Oct 25 12:00:24 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <20021025093231.5fe36fc8.kurt@k-huhn.com> References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> <20021024221806.6a07ccf4.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025051842.51B69A@proven.weird.com> <20021025093231.5fe36fc8.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <20021025170024.5A0D8A@proven.weird.com> [ On Friday, October 25, 2002 at 09:32:31 (-0400), Kurt Huhn wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] root equivalent user > > See, that's what you should have done the first time - instead of telling > someone that what they use is stupid, or the procedure wrong, or the policy > flawed. Contribute to the discussion, man. Until you offer *constructive* > critisism and helpful suggestions, you'll simply be labeled as a self > rightous and arrogant bastard. Telling people not to use what are obviously bad tools and techniques _is_ constructive -- it could _prevent_ serious damage. If people want to know the reasons why they shouldn't use bad tools and techniques as security solutions then they can easily enough ask or do their own research. It is enough for me to initially warn of the problems and I only did that because I know damn well that these issues are generally so poorly misunderstood that most average people will follow the pied piper right over the brink. I'm not participating in this discussion just to hold everyone's hand and babysit. If y'all want to have a meaningful discussion about something like this then that's fine, and if I find it interesting and if I have the time to spare then I'll participate. However when all that's happening is bad answers to questions popping out of the blue, then I'm only going to jump in with quick corrections out of the blue. I.e. if the questions have obviously had as much time and effort and thought put into them as I put into my previous reply then I will find the discussion a whole lot more engaging and I'm likely to give more detailed and interesting replies. Now I don't want to put too much of a personal attack against the originator of this thread because _everyone_ does the same thing all too regularly, but in this case I suspect if even a small amount of extra effort in background research had been used before posting the question then the right answer might have been obvious. Of course in this case there are a couple of key and fundamental concepts that are a lot harder to learn, such as the unix security model and the concept of the superuser and how that all fits together. There's lots of information about all this stuff readily available on the WWW and in many books and magazines, but of course as with every subject, especially on the WWW, not all of this info is good and correct. > Also, keep in mind that your method is not the appropriate one for all > situations. Keep an open mind. For instance, for a company of less than a > certain size, the method you describe above is extremely time consuming for > little benefit. In cases such as this, "good enough" is usally good enough. If "good enough" is good enough then there would not have been a question in the first place because the answer would have been glaringly obvious to even a non-techie. However there was a question and people started answering with what I've called "stupid", and perhaps damaging, and definitely totally inappropriate advice: technical approaches to a relationship problem, and technical approaches that create more problems than they could ever solve. Perhaps you don't understand just how critical good systems security is in _all_ cases where _any_ level of security is necessary. I would recommend that anyone wondering what I'm talking about read and _re-read_ Bruce Schneier's "Secrets & Lies", cover-to-cover, twice at least. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From dave at cca.org Fri Oct 25 12:44:18 2002 From: dave at cca.org (dave at cca.org) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:44:18 EDT Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <02425134417.dave.5692@cca.org> chris at chrisbyrne.com writes: >Good point. I forgot to list emotional music. That is music created to >create or enhance specific emotions or reactions. Chillout moods, death >metal, etc... >I was just introduced to a band called Spiral Architect a few weeks >back. They're kind of a cross between prog and death metal. Probably >the best serious hardcore metal I've heard in a long time. You're familiar with Nile, right? They seem to be the band that introduce most people to death metal these days. My favourite brutal music is still The Locust though. 60 second blasts of superfast grind, plus DEVO-ish keyboards and rediculous costumes. Ha ha ha. ------ David Fischer ------- dave at cca.org ------- http://www.cca.org ------ ----------- When Heaven is full, the dead shall walk the earth. ----------- From s at avoidant.org Fri Oct 25 12:53:58 2002 From: s at avoidant.org (s at avoidant.org) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:53:58 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <200210250815.g9P8FJIK011362@chrisbyrne.com> <20021025141626.GD24709@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <3DB98536.AD616093@avoidant.org> Joshua D Boyd wrote: > I thought it was "The Warlocks", which did a reunion show in... 1993? It was, they did, and I was there. Hampton Colliseum, Virginia. I even remember it. ---sambo From kurt at k-huhn.com Fri Oct 25 12:57:41 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:57:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <20021025170024.5A0D8A@proven.weird.com> References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> <20021024221806.6a07ccf4.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025051842.51B69A@proven.weird.com> <20021025093231.5fe36fc8.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025170024.5A0D8A@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20021025135741.20792dcd.kurt@k-huhn.com> woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) wrote: > Telling people not to use what are obviously bad tools and techniques > _is_ constructive -- it could _prevent_ serious damage. If people want Only if you supplement it with what you believe is the correct method. Anything less is arrogance - plain and simple. > to know the reasons why they shouldn't use bad tools and techniques as > security solutions then they can easily enough ask or do their own > research. It is enough for me to initially warn of the problems and I > only did that because I know damn well that these issues are generally > so poorly misunderstood that most average people will follow the pied > piper right over the brink. I'm not participating in this discussion It's not enough. You assume people are using broken technology because they don't know any better, yet you offer no nudges in the 'correct' direction. You think that based on your less than helpful input, people are going to research the subject? Give it a break - you can't possibly be that arrogant. Or perhaps you can, which is why you offer nothing more than what you do... > just to hold everyone's hand and babysit. If y'all want to have a > meaningful discussion about something like this then that's fine, and if > I find it interesting and if I have the time to spare then I'll > participate. However when all that's happening is bad answers to > questions popping out of the blue, then I'm only going to jump in with > quick corrections out of the blue. > Hey, that's your choice. Nobody here asked to be spoon-fed, but a pointer in your 'right' direction would be nice. We can read. We can research. Links to infornmation are alwats appreciated. If you find it interesting enough to pop up with a statement about a stupid piece of software, you can certainly give it the extra few seconds to provide information on the 'correct' way. Unless you don't really want to participate, and would rather just stir the fire from time to time. Just my observation, Greg. More often than not, your posts seem meant to illicit an emotional reaction, nothing more. > I.e. if the questions have obviously had as much time and effort and > thought put into them as I put into my previous reply then I will find > the discussion a whole lot more engaging and I'm likely to give more > detailed and interesting replies. Now I don't want to put too much of a > personal attack against the originator of this thread because _everyone_ > does the same thing all too regularly, but in this case I suspect if > even a small amount of extra effort in background research had been used > before posting the question then the right answer might have been > obvious. Of course in this case there are a couple of key and So two wrongs make a right? Why worsen a situation that you think is so bad by providing less info, or confusing the situation even more. How is that helpful? Why not elevate the conversation to your level instead of sinking to ours? Hmmm? > fundamental concepts that are a lot harder to learn, such as the unix > security model and the concept of the superuser and how that all fits > together. There's lots of information about all this stuff readily > available on the WWW and in many books and magazines, but of course as > with every subject, especially on the WWW, not all of this info is good > and correct. > If you think the original poster didn't fully research the subject, why not provide some links to material? Help along that research instead of hindering it with unhelpful remarks. > > If "good enough" is good enough then there would not have been a > question in the first place because the answer would have been glaringly > obvious to even a non-techie. However there was a question and people > started answering with what I've called "stupid", and perhaps damaging, > and definitely totally inappropriate advice: technical approaches to a > relationship problem, and technical approaches that create more problems > than they could ever solve. > Then help out, Greg. How else do you hope to ever bring someone to your level of enlightnment and knowledge? Buddha taught, he didn't expect others to somehow gain enlightenment without help. > Perhaps you don't understand just how critical good systems security is > in _all_ cases where _any_ level of security is necessary. I would > recommend that anyone wondering what I'm talking about read and _re-read_ > Bruce Schneier's "Secrets & Lies", cover-to-cover, twice at least. > Ad Hominem attack. Apparently what's good for the goose is not good for you, Greg. You complained that someone had launched an Ad Hominem attack your way, yet here you are calling in to question my knowledge of the Unix security model - a subject that I have not brought up, and a discussion I have not entered into. I asked that you be helpful, I have not otherwise contributed to the current thread. For what it's worth, Secrets and Lies is sitting right here on my desk, and I have read it a few times - some portions several times. -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From nimitz at speakeasy.net Fri Oct 25 13:20:42 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:20:42 -0500 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> <20021024221806.6a07ccf4.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025051842.51B69A@proven.weird.com> <20021025093231.5fe36fc8.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025170024.5A0D8A@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <3DB98B7A.6020009@speakeasy.net> Greg A. Woods wrote: > [ On Friday, October 25, 2002 at 09:32:31 (-0400), Kurt Huhn wrote: ] > Telling people not to use what are obviously bad tools and techniques > _is_ constructive -- it could _prevent_ serious damage. If people want > to know the reasons why they shouldn't use bad tools and techniques as > security solutions then they can easily enough ask or do their own > research. It is enough for me to initially warn of the problems and I > only did that because I know damn well that these issues are generally > so poorly misunderstood that most average people will follow the pied > piper right over the brink. Then as Kurt so kindly stated - point them in the right direction. I personally _know_ I don't know enough which is why I ask for help on things occasionally. People who don't know need not be told they are wrong - they already know that probability. It is far better to tell someone "Do this instead for these reasons." and _then_ explain why what they want to do won't work than just telling them "You're wrong. Don't do it that way!" > I'm not participating in this discussion > just to hold everyone's hand and babysit. If y'all want to have a > meaningful discussion about something like this then that's fine, and if > I find it interesting and if I have the time to spare then I'll > participate. However when all that's happening is bad answers to > questions popping out of the blue, then I'm only going to jump in with > quick corrections out of the blue. I'm personally not questioning your information I'm questioning the way it is presented. Even quick corrections - _especially_ quick corrections - need explanation. Not doing so gives the impression of supreme knowledge and emotionless response. I.E. that arrogance that Kurt mentioned. People do not respond well to that. > I.e. if the questions have obviously had as much time and effort and > thought put into them as I put into my previous reply then I will find > the discussion a whole lot more engaging and I'm likely to give more > detailed and interesting replies. Now I don't want to put too much of a > personal attack against the originator of this thread because _everyone_ > does the same thing all too regularly, but in this case I suspect if > even a small amount of extra effort in background research had been used > before posting the question then the right answer might have been > obvious. Of course in this case there are a couple of key and > fundamental concepts that are a lot harder to learn, such as the unix > security model and the concept of the superuser and how that all fits > together. There's lots of information about all this stuff readily > available on the WWW and in many books and magazines, but of course as > with every subject, especially on the WWW, not all of this info is good > and correct. So because we do not have supreme knowledge and because we do not have extreme experience then our answers are garbage. As for the "research" issue - how would one know _what_ to research without asking the question? > If "good enough" is good enough then there would not have been a > question in the first place because the answer would have been glaringly > obvious to even a non-techie. However there was a question and people > started answering with what I've called "stupid", and perhaps damaging, > and definitely totally inappropriate advice: technical approaches to a > relationship problem, and technical approaches that create more problems > than they could ever solve. I feel you're being a little extreme here Greg. Not all situations require the same policies that you employ. And, from a personal standpoint, calling someone's answer "stupid" is particularly imflammatory. Besides - even if the advice is "bad" and even if the person takes and implements the advice, the person will at least be learning how to handle the situation. As far as I'm concerned it's more than normal to occasionally break things or mis-configure things in the process of learning and growing. I don't think there's a person on the list who will not admit to breaking _something_ in the process of learning to understand it. > Perhaps you don't understand just how critical good systems security is > in _all_ cases where _any_ level of security is necessary. I would > recommend that anyone wondering what I'm talking about read and _re-read_ > Bruce Schneier's "Secrets & Lies", cover-to-cover, twice at least. Security scales with th size/complexity of the network Greg. In most cases a four-machine network does not need Kerberos, heavy encrypted passwords, 80 day password changes, or biometric identification technology. _Each_ _security_ _solution_ _is_ _custom_ _for_ _the_ _network_ _in_ _question_. You have to balance security with ease of use. If you do not and max-out the security you will have more service calls to user desktops than you can handle. The users will be more frustrated and break more things - many of them not related to your security. Happy users, and a happy admin, make a happy network. (Yes I know I've blown my possible alt.sysadmin.recovery standing by stating the unthinkable but it's more true than you ever will believe.) Mike Hebel From kurt at k-huhn.com Fri Oct 25 13:59:09 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:59:09 -0400 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <3DB98B7A.6020009@speakeasy.net> References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> <20021024221806.6a07ccf4.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025051842.51B69A@proven.weird.com> <20021025093231.5fe36fc8.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025170024.5A0D8A@proven.weird.com> <3DB98B7A.6020009@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20021025145909.4a91071b.kurt@k-huhn.com> Mike Hebel wrote: > security. Happy users, and a happy admin, make a happy network. > (Yes I know I've blown my possible alt.sysadmin.recovery standing by > stating the unthinkable but it's more true than you ever will believe.) To illustrate, I just allowed rexec to a system when I felt it would make my life easier. The particular user, a very clued individual, needed this type of access. In a larger more complex network I may have denied the request - today I allowed it beacause I felt that it was a good solution to his needs. -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From woods at weird.com Fri Oct 25 14:42:26 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 15:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <3DB98B7A.6020009@speakeasy.net> References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> <20021024221806.6a07ccf4.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025051842.51B69A@proven.weird.com> <20021025093231.5fe36fc8.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025170024.5A0D8A@proven.weird.com> <3DB98B7A.6020009@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20021025194226.6F71AA@proven.weird.com> [ On Friday, October 25, 2002 at 13:20:42 (-0500), Mike Hebel wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] root equivalent user > > Then as Kurt so kindly stated - point them in the right direction. I > personally _know_ I don't know enough which is why I ask for help on > things occasionally. People who don't know need not be told they are > wrong - they already know that probability. It is far better to tell > someone "Do this instead for these reasons." and _then_ explain why what > they want to do won't work than just telling them "You're wrong. Don't > do it that way!" If you remember I never responded to the original question -- I responed only the bad answers. By the time I responded the correct answer (in the form of a leading question) had already been posed by at least two people. > > Perhaps you don't understand just how critical good systems security is > > in _all_ cases where _any_ level of security is necessary. I would > > recommend that anyone wondering what I'm talking about read and _re-read_ > > Bruce Schneier's "Secrets & Lies", cover-to-cover, twice at least. > > Security scales with th size/complexity of the network Greg. No, not in the examples we're talking about here. Please actually read the book referenced above. Security in a digital world is a whole different critter. In the digital realm if you forget to do up your fly you'll just as likely get your balls ripped right out before you know what happened as be giggled at. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From woods at weird.com Fri Oct 25 14:50:04 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 15:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <20021025135741.20792dcd.kurt@k-huhn.com> References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> <20021024221806.6a07ccf4.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025051842.51B69A@proven.weird.com> <20021025093231.5fe36fc8.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025170024.5A0D8A@proven.weird.com> <20021025135741.20792dcd.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <20021025195004.08927A@proven.weird.com> [ On Friday, October 25, 2002 at 13:57:41 (-0400), Kurt Huhn wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] root equivalent user > > Why not elevate the conversation to your level instead of sinking > to ours? Hmmm? Sometimes I try -- sometimes it's just too trying..... :-) > If you think the original poster didn't fully research the subject, why not > provide some links to material? Help along that research instead of > hindering it with unhelpful remarks. As I've pointed out to Mike, I didn't actually respond at all to the original question -- only to the bad advice it evoked. I was going to ask the original poster the very same question that others had already asked, but clearly that would have been redundant and no more helpful. I'm not sure any more (without re-reading the archives, and I'm too lazy to do that right now), but I think we're still all waiting for an answer to that question aren't we? -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From kurt at k-huhn.com Fri Oct 25 15:15:59 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:15:59 -0400 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <20021025195004.08927A@proven.weird.com> References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> <20021024221806.6a07ccf4.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025051842.51B69A@proven.weird.com> <20021025093231.5fe36fc8.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025170024.5A0D8A@proven.weird.com> <20021025135741.20792dcd.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025195004.08927A@proven.weird.com> Message-ID: <20021025161559.453ac971.kurt@k-huhn.com> woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) wrote: > [ On Friday, October 25, 2002 at 13:57:41 (-0400), Kurt Huhn wrote: ] > > Why not elevate the conversation to your level instead of sinking > > to ours? Hmmm? > > Sometimes I try -- sometimes it's just too trying..... :-) > Only after I called you on it did you assemble soemthing even the least bit helpful. If it's too trying, why bother in the first place? You didn't answer my other question - do two wrongs make a right? > As I've pointed out to Mike, I didn't actually respond at all to the > original question -- only to the bad advice it evoked. > And in doing so, reponded to the original question in an indirect manner. Even so - if you think the replies weren't fully researched, why not provide some links to material? Try to spin it any way you can, but you are *not* being helpful when you post as you are wont to do. Plain and simple. > I was going to ask the original poster the very same question that > others had already asked, but clearly that would have been redundant and > no more helpful. I'm not sure any more (without re-reading the "I was just gonna" - I know that one well. My kids use it on me all the time. Got called on something and need to come up with a way out quickly. > archives, and I'm too lazy to do that right now), but I think we're > still all waiting for an answer to that question aren't we? > So, what's your answer? Again, try to be helpful. -- Kurt kurt at k-huhn.com From woods at weird.com Fri Oct 25 15:53:10 2002 From: woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <20021025161559.453ac971.kurt@k-huhn.com> References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> <20021024221806.6a07ccf4.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025051842.51B69A@proven.weird.com> <20021025093231.5fe36fc8.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025170024.5A0D8A@proven.weird.com> <20021025135741.20792dcd.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025195004.08927A@proven.weird.com> <20021025161559.453ac971.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <20021025205310.6F6D9A@proven.weird.com> [ On Friday, October 25, 2002 at 16:15:59 (-0400), Kurt Huhn wrote: ] > Subject: Re: [geeks] root equivalent user > > > archives, and I'm too lazy to do that right now), but I think we're > > still all waiting for an answer to that question aren't we? > > > > So, what's your answer? Again, try to be helpful. do we have an answer to the first question yet or not? -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098; ; Planix, Inc. ; VE3TCP; Secrets of the Weird From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 17:01:38 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 15:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user In-Reply-To: <20021025161559.453ac971.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <20021025220138.85976.qmail@web9302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kurt Huhn wrote: > woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) wrote: > > > [ On Friday, October 25, 2002 at 13:57:41 (-0400), Kurt Huhn wrote: > ] > > > Why not elevate the conversation to your level instead of > > > sinking to ours? Hmmm? > > > > Sometimes I try -- sometimes it's just too trying..... :-) > > > > Only after I called you on it did you assemble soemthing even the > least bit helpful. If it's too trying, why bother in the first > place? "Can't we, can't we all just get along?" I am tiring of seeing this thread continue - could this find a new home, or, better yet, come to an friendly conclusion? I understand the nature of this list, but we are talking about responses to responses to responses to a question asked *how many* days ago now??? Thanks, hope I didn't offend anyone - unless, of course, the Rodney King reference upset you - that *was* intended! Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From kchris_iii at hotmail.com Fri Oct 25 17:10:01 2002 From: kchris_iii at hotmail.com (Chris David) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 22:10:01 +0000 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user Message-ID: Hi All As myself opened the thread, I got my problem solved. Thanks for everyone for your valuble suggestions. Lets close the thread :-) regards >From: Lionel Peterson >Reply-To: geeks at sunhelp.org >To: geeks at sunhelp.org >Subject: Re: [geeks] root equivalent user >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 15:01:38 -0700 (PDT) > >--- Kurt Huhn wrote: > > woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) wrote: > > > > > [ On Friday, October 25, 2002 at 13:57:41 (-0400), Kurt Huhn wrote: > > ] > > > > Why not elevate the conversation to your level instead of > > > > sinking to ours? Hmmm? > > > > > > Sometimes I try -- sometimes it's just too trying..... :-) > > > > > > > Only after I called you on it did you assemble soemthing even the > > least bit helpful. If it's too trying, why bother in the first > > place? > >"Can't we, can't we all just get along?" > >I am tiring of seeing this thread continue - could this find a new >home, or, better yet, come to an friendly conclusion? I understand the >nature of this list, but we are talking about responses to responses to >responses to a question asked *how many* days ago now??? > >Thanks, hope I didn't offend anyone - unless, of course, the Rodney >King reference upset you - that *was* intended! > >Lionel > >===== >Lionel > >"Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten >programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" >Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 >Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site >http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From schiller at agrijag.com Fri Oct 25 17:55:51 2002 From: schiller at agrijag.com (Michael Schiller) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:55:51 -0400 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user References: Message-ID: <3DB9CBF7.98D4C086@agrijag.com> Chris David wrote: > Hi All > As myself opened the thread, I got my problem solved. Thanks for everyone > for your valuble suggestions. Lets close the thread :-) > > Chris: I'm curious what your solution was. I agree that the topic degraded quickly, so if you would prefer to answer in private email, that would be fine. I'm just interested in the technicalities of the solution, not the politics of it :) -- -Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------* *PGP fingerprint= D2 4F A8 B7 13 D5 73 1E 48 99 40 99 F9 BC 74 74 * *Email:schiller at nospam.agrijag.com \|||/ http://www.agrijag.com * * (o o) * *-------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------* From chris at yonderway.com Fri Oct 25 20:45:12 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 21:45:12 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <02425071227.dave.11296@cca.org> Message-ID: <911048C4-E884-11D6-BDED-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 07:12 AM, dave at cca.org wrote: > You're missing the really hardcore music. Hardcore, death metal, > noise, etc. Music to riot to. Also missing "music to fornicate to", such as Marvin Gaye, Barry White, Frank Zappa and Jello Biafra. Chris Hedemark Hillsborough, NC http://yonderway.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (Darwin) iD8DBQE9ufOtYPuF4Zq9lvYRAqk1AKDl5UN6jz3zMhJBh+mJ2Y3iVDbNvACfVvBZ C8uBM0gkZSEXzwjhXI/EYhQ= =A9kp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Oct 25 20:49:02 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 21:49:02 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <911048C4-E884-11D6-BDED-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> Message-ID: <1A636782-E885-11D6-90F3-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 09:45 PM, Chris Hedemark wrote: >> You're missing the really hardcore music. Hardcore, death metal, >> noise, etc. Music to riot to. > > Also missing "music to fornicate to", such as Marvin Gaye, Barry > White, Frank Zappa and Jello Biafra. The only music I like to fornicate to is the voice and breath of a beautiful woman in my ear. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Mmmm, big." St. Petersburg, FL -Den From caleb at webninja.com Fri Oct 25 21:08:41 2002 From: caleb at webninja.com (Caleb Shay) Date: 25 Oct 2002 22:08:41 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <911048C4-E884-11D6-BDED-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> References: <911048C4-E884-11D6-BDED-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> Message-ID: <1035598123.10752.0.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net> Jello Biafra is music to fornicate to? Wow, what an interesting sex life you must lead. Caleb On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 21:45, Chris Hedemark wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 07:12 AM, dave at cca.org wrote: > > > You're missing the really hardcore music. Hardcore, death metal, > > noise, etc. Music to riot to. > > Also missing "music to fornicate to", such as Marvin Gaye, Barry White, > Frank Zappa and Jello Biafra. > > Chris Hedemark > Hillsborough, NC > http://yonderway.com > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (Darwin) > > iD8DBQE9ufOtYPuF4Zq9lvYRAqk1AKDl5UN6jz3zMhJBh+mJ2Y3iVDbNvACfVvBZ > C8uBM0gkZSEXzwjhXI/EYhQ= > =A9kp > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- [demime 0.99d.1 removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From chris at yonderway.com Fri Oct 25 21:24:46 2002 From: chris at yonderway.com (Chris Hedemark) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 22:24:46 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <1035598123.10752.0.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <1837E18E-E88A-11D6-BDED-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 10:08 PM, Caleb Shay wrote: > Jello Biafra is music to fornicate to? Wow, what an interesting sex > life you must lead. Just seeing if you're paying attention. Behold, the power of lard. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (Darwin) iD8DBQE9ufz0YPuF4Zq9lvYRAgFgAJ45tuB95EhF4JE//F60cuYrsW1fMwCgvlD5 EXvOD8m0H7KdDGGMUU/0Wew= =Rv/C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dave at cca.org Fri Oct 25 21:23:55 2002 From: dave at cca.org (dave at cca.org) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 22:23:55 EDT Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <02425222355.dave.20908@cca.org> chris at yonderway.com writes: >On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 07:12 AM, dave at cca.org wrote: >> You're missing the really hardcore music. Hardcore, death metal, >> noise, etc. Music to riot to. >Also missing "music to fornicate to", such as Marvin Gaye, Barry White, >Frank Zappa and Jello Biafra. "Too Drunk Too Fuck"??? ------ David Fischer ------- dave at cca.org ------- http://www.cca.org ------ ----------- When Heaven is full, the dead shall walk the earth. ----------- From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Oct 25 21:33:28 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 21:33:28 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <1A636782-E885-11D6-90F3-000393970B96@neurotica.com> References: <911048C4-E884-11D6-BDED-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> <1A636782-E885-11D6-90F3-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20021026023328.GS5437@mrbill.net> On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 09:49:02PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > The only music I like to fornicate to is the voice and breath of a > beautiful woman in my ear. You've *really* got to stop abusing those 900 numbers, Dave. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill at mrbill.net austin, texas From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Oct 25 21:38:01 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 22:38:01 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021026023328.GS5437@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 10:33 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: >> The only music I like to fornicate to is the voice and breath of a >> beautiful woman in my ear. > > You've *really* got to stop abusing those 900 numbers, Dave. Huh? Nonono...not in my hear from a phone...in my ear from her MOUTH. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Mmmm, big." St. Petersburg, FL -Den From wa2egp at att.net Fri Oct 25 22:10:19 2002 From: wa2egp at att.net (wa2egp at att.net) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 03:10:19 +0000 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <20021026031019.MBGV12639.mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc16> > While I do not advocate the abuse of the planet, I do beleive that the > tree hugging morons should actually study some science so they don't panic > the masses. I teach Advanced Placement Environmental Science and the first chapter of the book I use deals with science, junk science and pseudoscience. You make a good point. The masses need to study science so they don't get paniced by the media. Bob From wa2egp at att.net Fri Oct 25 22:29:13 2002 From: wa2egp at att.net (wa2egp at att.net) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 03:29:13 +0000 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <20021026032913.HUDG20156.mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc16> > Hpmh. And there are people trying to figure out ways to change this > environment purposefully. Figure that one out. Yeah, we've been doing it for about 10,000 years. It's called agriculture. Bob From nimitz at speakeasy.net Fri Oct 25 22:47:53 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 22:47:53 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <20021026032913.HUDG20156.mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc16> Message-ID: <3DBA1069.9020209@speakeasy.net> wa2egp at att.net wrote: >>Hpmh. And there are people trying to figure out ways to change this >>environment purposefully. Figure that one out. > > > Yeah, we've been doing it for about 10,000 years. It's called agriculture. [flamebait] Oh! You mean like slash/burn farming. [/flamebait] ;-) Just kidding. I know what you mean. Still I feel there's more than minor agriculture at work now. Mike Hebel From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 22:51:16 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <911048C4-E884-11D6-BDED-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> Message-ID: <20021026035116.16920.qmail@web9303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chris Hedemark wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Also missing "music to fornicate to", such as Marvin Gaye, Barry > White, Frank Zappa and Jello Biafra. FZ? I wouldn't compare him/his work to Marvin Gaye - more like polar opposites, except that both were very good at their form of music... Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 22:55:17 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <1A636782-E885-11D6-90F3-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20021026035517.17449.qmail@web9302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave McGuire wrote: > On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 09:45 PM, Chris Hedemark wrote: > > Also missing "music to fornicate to", such as Marvin Gaye, Barry > > White, Frank Zappa and Jello Biafra. > > The only music I like to fornicate to is the voice and breath of a > beautiful woman in my ear. What, you don't play Christmas music? ;^) Or a good March? Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 22:58:33 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <1035598123.10752.0.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20021026035833.3591.qmail@web9307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Caleb Shay wrote: > Jello Biafra is music to fornicate to? Wow, what an interesting sex > life you must lead. http://unixsex.com/admins/vintage/vax.jpg Yuck... Lionel (Kidding ;^) ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From nimitz at speakeasy.net Fri Oct 25 23:00:29 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 23:00:29 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <20021026035833.3591.qmail@web9307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DBA135D.5040909@speakeasy.net> Lionel Peterson wrote: > --- Caleb Shay wrote: > >>Jello Biafra is music to fornicate to? Wow, what an interesting sex >>life you must lead. > > > http://unixsex.com/admins/vintage/vax.jpg > Y'know...people keep posting that link here and it's gonna get the popularity of a certain goat named link. ;-) (Oddly, the goat link has now made it's way to Freenet.) Mike Hebel From wa2egp at att.net Sat Oct 26 00:01:24 2002 From: wa2egp at att.net (wa2egp at att.net) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 05:01:24 +0000 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <20021026050113.RYRC4213.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc16> > [flamebait] Oh! You mean like slash/burn farming. [/flamebait] ;-) > > Just kidding. I know what you mean. Still I feel there's more than > minor agriculture at work now. Slash/burn farming is minor. Regular farming is major. How much biodiversity is in a field.....very little. One disease can wpe out a crop. Add chemicals to increase productivity which can and will run off into waterways. Irrigation increases the saltiness of the land until it it too salty to farm. Let's include pesticides, whoo boy! We're having fun now! Actually, we created microenvironments inside buildings and are trying to change things outside. Unfortunately, some things are unintentional. The problem with things like global warming is that if it is coming and a problem, we might be able to do too little, too late. We may have caught the thinning of the ozone in time through. Bob From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Oct 26 03:27:30 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 04:27:30 -0400 Subject: [geeks] MASSbus cable needed Message-ID: Hey folks. Does anyone here have a spare DEC MASSbus cable? A six-footer would do fine. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Mmmm, big." St. Petersburg, FL -Den From david at cantrell.org.uk Sat Oct 26 06:30:10 2002 From: david at cantrell.org.uk (David Cantrell) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:30:10 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <1837E18E-E88A-11D6-BDED-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com>; from chris@yonderway.com on Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 10:24:46PM -0400 References: <1035598123.10752.0.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net> <1837E18E-E88A-11D6-BDED-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> Message-ID: <20021026123009.A17165@barnyard.co.uk> On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 10:24:46PM -0400, Chris Hedemark wrote: > On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 10:08 PM, Caleb Shay wrote: > > Jello Biafra is music to fornicate to? > Just seeing if you're paying attention. > Behold, the power of lard. Praise the Lard! -- David Cantrell | david at cantrell.org.uk | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Vegetables are what food eats From kurt at k-huhn.com Sat Oct 26 08:02:32 2002 From: kurt at k-huhn.com (Kurt Huhn) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:02:32 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <911048C4-E884-11D6-BDED-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> References: <02425071227.dave.11296@cca.org> <911048C4-E884-11D6-BDED-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> Message-ID: <20021026090232.07c5bd0f.kurt@k-huhn.com> Chris Hedemark wrote: > > Also missing "music to fornicate to", such as Marvin Gaye, Barry > White, Frank Zappa and Jello Biafra. -----------------------> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Seriously? I never would have thought of his music that way. Sade belongs on the above list as well... -- Kurt "I remember that I've got a solid base of worms and kurt at k-huhn.com ant eggs. I puke like a hero all night long." -- Tony Bourdain From nimitz at speakeasy.net Sat Oct 26 08:34:43 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:34:43 -0500 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <20021026050113.RYRC4213.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc16> Message-ID: <3DBA99F3.4020603@speakeasy.net> wa2egp at att.net wrote: >>[flamebait] Oh! You mean like slash/burn farming. [/flamebait] ;-) >> >>Just kidding. I know what you mean. Still I feel there's more than >>minor agriculture at work now. > > > Slash/burn farming is minor. Regular farming is major. How much biodiversity > is in a field.....very little. One disease can wpe out a crop. Hmmm...thus the reason for all the gentically engineered crops. Both a good and bad thing IMHO. Jury's still out on that one from my point of view. > Add chemicals to increase productivity which can and will run off into waterways. I even see this locally. Some of the local lakes here are clogged with algae because of lawn and farm fertilizers. The main lake here in town always smells "green" because of it. > Irrigation increases the saltiness of the land until it it too salty to farm. Let's include > pesticides, whoo boy! We're having fun now! Don't get me started on how many checmicals we pick up in our environment every day. These have a far bigger effect on people than they realize. > Actually, we created microenvironments inside buildings and are trying to change things outside. > Unfortunately, some things are unintentional. > The problem with things like global warming is that if it is > coming and a problem, we might be able to do too little, too late. It sounds strange but I do still have some faith in our ability to adapt to the changes that are caused by our mistakes. I bet some of us would even survive a nuclear war and eventually flourish afterwards. > We may have caught the thinning of the ozone in time through. Maybe. But I still believe that we don't have enough data to make that judgement call. Mike Hebel From j.carver3 at attbi.com Sat Oct 26 09:44:58 2002 From: j.carver3 at attbi.com (Jim Carver) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 07:44:58 -0700 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <20021026035116.16920.qmail@web9303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DBAAA6A.E1D9F0D7@attbi.com> Lionel Peterson wrote: > > --- Chris Hedemark wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Also missing "music to fornicate to", such as Marvin Gaye, Barry > > White, Frank Zappa and Jello Biafra. > > FZ? I wouldn't compare him/his work to Marvin Gaye - more like polar > opposites, except that both were very good at their form of music... > > Lionel > > ===== > Lionel > > "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten > programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" > Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks While a direct comparison b/t FZ and Marvin Gaye might be stretching it a bit... If you can find it, check out Jean-Luc Ponty's King Kong on Blue Note records. The whole album was composed by Frank. It really opens a lot of peoples eyes to his musical genius when they hear it. jim From mike at blackhairy.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 26 11:41:48 2002 From: mike at blackhairy.demon.co.uk (Mike Meredith) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 17:41:48 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021026090232.07c5bd0f.kurt@k-huhn.com> References: <02425071227.dave.11296@cca.org> <911048C4-E884-11D6-BDED-0003939CC61E@yonderway.com> <20021026090232.07c5bd0f.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <200210261741.48671.mike@blackhairy.demon.co.uk> On Saturday 26 October 2002 2:02 pm, Kurt Huhn wrote: > Chris Hedemark wrote: > > Also missing "music to fornicate to", such as Marvin Gaye, Barry > > White, Frank Zappa and Jello Biafra. > > -----------------------> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Seriously? I never would have thought of his music that way. > > Sade belongs on the above list as well... And Black Sabbath. (yes I'm a sick bastard ... have you only just spotted it ?) From mike at blackhairy.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 26 12:00:07 2002 From: mike at blackhairy.demon.co.uk (Mike Meredith) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:00:07 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <3DBA99F3.4020603@speakeasy.net> References: <20021026050113.RYRC4213.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc16> <3DBA99F3.4020603@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <200210261800.07355.mike@blackhairy.demon.co.uk> On Saturday 26 October 2002 2:34 pm, Mike Hebel wrote: > wa2egp at att.net wrote: > >>[flamebait] Oh! You mean like slash/burn farming. [/flamebait] ;-) > >> > > Slash/burn farming is minor. Regular farming is major. How much What I always find funny about agriculture is just how many people think the resultant landscape is natural ... English people looking at rolling green fields. It isn't natural at all as it was originally mostly covered in forest. Just how much "global warming" is due to iron age axes ? > > biodiversity is in a field.....very little. One disease can wpe > > out a crop. > > Hmmm...thus the reason for all the gentically engineered crops. Both > a good and bad thing IMHO. Jury's still out on that one from my > point of view. What I don't like about GE crops is the lack of diversity ... they've engineered them to be immune to the known crop diseases. What happens when a new crop disease springs up ? We know the answer to that one ... an Irish Potatoe famine (yes that's at the extreme end of the possibilities). > > We may have caught the thinning of the ozone in time through. > > Maybe. I'd go so far as to say probably, but that doesn't mean we should start using ozone-depleting chemicals again. > But I still believe that we don't have enough data to make > that judgement call. We never really do. From gleblanc at linuxweasel.com Sat Oct 26 12:27:42 2002 From: gleblanc at linuxweasel.com (Gregory Leblanc) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:27:42 -0700 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <3DBA99F3.4020603@speakeasy.net> References: <20021026050113.RYRC4213.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc16> <3DBA99F3.4020603@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20021026172742.GA30797@peeps.cable.rcn.com> On Sat, Oct 26, 2002 at 08:34:43AM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > wa2egp at att.net wrote: > >>[flamebait] Oh! You mean like slash/burn farming. [/flamebait] ;-) > >> > >>Just kidding. I know what you mean. Still I feel there's more than > >>minor agriculture at work now. > > > > > >Slash/burn farming is minor. Regular farming is major. How much > >biodiversity > >is in a field.....very little. One disease can wpe out a crop. > > Hmmm...thus the reason for all the gentically engineered crops. Both a > good and bad thing IMHO. Jury's still out on that one from my point of > view. Any chance of getting you weinies, err, geeks, to put useful subjects on these mails? How many topics is this mail removed from the original? Three? Twelve? Greg From nimitz at speakeasy.net Sat Oct 26 12:33:26 2002 From: nimitz at speakeasy.net (Mike Hebel) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:33:26 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Weenie subject change...just for Greg Leblanc... References: <20021026050113.RYRC4213.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc16> <3DBA99F3.4020603@speakeasy.net> <20021026172742.GA30797@peeps.cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <3DBAD1E6.6010105@speakeasy.net> Gregory Leblanc wrote: > On Sat, Oct 26, 2002 at 08:34:43AM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > >>wa2egp at att.net wrote: >> >>>>[flamebait] Oh! You mean like slash/burn farming. [/flamebait] ;-) >>>> >>>>Just kidding. I know what you mean. Still I feel there's more than >>>>minor agriculture at work now. >>> >>> >>>Slash/burn farming is minor. Regular farming is major. How much >>>biodiversity >>>is in a field.....very little. One disease can wpe out a crop. >> >>Hmmm...thus the reason for all the gentically engineered crops. Both a >>good and bad thing IMHO. Jury's still out on that one from my point of >>view. > > > Any chance of getting you weinies, err, geeks, to put useful subjects > on these mails? How many topics is this mail removed from the > original? Three? Twelve? Three, with two separate threads. But who's counting? ;-) Mike Hebel From david at cantrell.org.uk Sat Oct 26 12:44:16 2002 From: david at cantrell.org.uk (David Cantrell) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:44:16 +0100 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <3DBA99F3.4020603@speakeasy.net>; from nimitz@speakeasy.net on Sat, Oct 26, 2002 at 08:34:43AM -0500 References: <20021026050113.RYRC4213.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc16> <3DBA99F3.4020603@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20021026184416.A18025@barnyard.co.uk> On Sat, Oct 26, 2002 at 08:34:43AM -0500, Mike Hebel wrote: > Hmmm...thus the reason for all the gentically engineered crops. Both a > good and bad thing IMHO. Jury's still out on that one from my point of > view. Definitely a bad thing from where I'm sitting. Not because of health reasons or anything like that, but because of the patent rubbish attached to them. -- Grand Inquisitor Reverend David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david "There seems to be something wrong with our ships today" -- Rear-admiral Sir David Beatty, on seeing the Queen Mary and the Indefatigable destroyed at the Battle of Jutland From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 26 13:04:17 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <3DBAAA6A.E1D9F0D7@attbi.com> Message-ID: <20021026180417.78983.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jim Carver wrote: > Lionel Peterson wrote: > > > > --- Chris Hedemark wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Also missing "music to fornicate to", such as Marvin Gaye, Barry > > > White, Frank Zappa and Jello Biafra. > > > > FZ? I wouldn't compare him/his work to Marvin Gaye - more like > > polar opposites, except that both were very good at their form of > > music... > While a direct comparison b/t FZ and Marvin Gaye might be stretching > it a bit... If you can find it, check out Jean-Luc Ponty's King Kong > on Blue Note records. The whole album was composed by Frank. It > really opens a lot of peoples eyes to his musical genius when they > hear it. Jim, I never questioned either's talents, I was focusing on the different styles... Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From lionel4287 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 26 13:09:59 2002 From: lionel4287 at yahoo.com (Lionel Peterson) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <200210261741.48671.mike@blackhairy.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <20021026180959.69737.qmail@web9307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Meredith wrote: > On Saturday 26 October 2002 2:02 pm, Kurt Huhn wrote: > > Sade belongs on the above list as well... > > And Black Sabbath. Fine, then Front 242 should be as well... Lionel ===== Lionel "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software" Bill Gates, in "An OpenLetter to Hobbyists" dated February 3, 1976 Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Oct 26 13:48:08 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 14:48:08 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <3DBA99F3.4020603@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <77FE03B9-E913-11D6-90F3-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Saturday, October 26, 2002, at 09:34 AM, Mike Hebel wrote: > I even see this locally. Some of the local lakes here are clogged with > algae because of lawn and farm fertilizers. The main lake here in > town always smells "green" because of it. But green is GOOD! Green means LIFE! Don't you like life? What's the matter with you?! Think of the CHILDREN!! -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Mmmm, big." St. Petersburg, FL -Den From gleblanc at linuxweasel.com Sat Oct 26 15:29:35 2002 From: gleblanc at linuxweasel.com (Gregory Leblanc) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 13:29:35 -0700 Subject: [geeks] Irix's wonky install Message-ID: <20021026202935.GB30797@peeps.cable.rcn.com> So, had anybody else noticed that Irix has some wonky utilities? I can't find a way to make their sed program match digits, which is silly, but easy enough to get around (just install gnu sed). But what's -really- bizzare is their install program. It supports -d and -dir, for "GNU/BSD Compatibility". However, it doesn't actually seem to be compatible. For some reason, 'install -d dirname' is trying to create /dirname; that is, its trying to create it under /, instead of under $PWD. This makes it impossible to use any relative paths, and converting this project to use absolute paths is more trouble than I'm up for. Here's what the man page says, which is slightly confusing: -dir (or -d for BSD/GNU compatibility) Create directories named by concatenating $ROOT to the file arguments. When -dir is given, all the file arguments are taken as directories; files and directories may not both be installed with the same command. So, I'm not quite sure what it's talking about with that $ROOT, but it doesn't actually seem to be talking about the environmental variable named ROOT, since that's not set, either before or after running install, nor in my shell. Perhaps getting rid of $ROOT would make it work properly, but I have no thoughts on how to do that. Help? Greg From caleb at webninja.com Sat Oct 26 16:02:40 2002 From: caleb at webninja.com (Caleb Shay) Date: 26 Oct 2002 17:02:40 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Irix's wonky install In-Reply-To: <20021026202935.GB30797@peeps.cable.rcn.com> References: <20021026202935.GB30797@peeps.cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <1035666161.25100.2.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net> Irix has a variable $ROOT which generally refers to "/", for the sake of install programs. The variable is generally overridden for stuff like creating tardists in a non-standard directory to be installed in a normal directory later. Your best bet would probably be to install the fileutils from freeware.sgi.com and use /usr/freeware/bin/install. Caleb On Sat, 2002-10-26 at 16:29, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > So, had anybody else noticed that Irix has some wonky utilities? I > can't find a way to make their sed program match digits, which is > silly, but easy enough to get around (just install gnu sed). But > what's -really- bizzare is their install program. It supports -d and > -dir, for "GNU/BSD Compatibility". However, it doesn't actually seem > to be compatible. For some reason, 'install -d dirname' is trying to > create /dirname; that is, its trying to create it under /, instead of > under $PWD. This makes it impossible to use any relative paths, and > converting this project to use absolute paths is more trouble than I'm > up for. Here's what the man page says, which is slightly confusing: > > -dir (or -d for BSD/GNU compatibility) > Create directories named by concatenating $ROOT to the > file arguments. When -dir is given, all the file > arguments are taken as directories; files and directories > may not both be installed with the same command. > > So, I'm not quite sure what it's talking about with that $ROOT, but it > doesn't actually seem to be talking about the environmental variable > named ROOT, since that's not set, either before or after running > install, nor in my shell. Perhaps getting rid of $ROOT would make it > work properly, but I have no thoughts on how to do that. Help? > Greg > _______________________________________________ > GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks -- [demime 0.99d.1 removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From j.carver3 at attbi.com Sat Oct 26 16:30:55 2002 From: j.carver3 at attbi.com (Jim Carver) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 14:30:55 -0700 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... References: <20021026180417.78983.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DBB098F.F9447931@attbi.com> Lionel Peterson wrote: > > --- Jim Carver wrote: > > Lionel Peterson wrote: > > > > > > --- Chris Hedemark wrote: > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > > Also missing "music to fornicate to", such as Marvin Gaye, Barry > > > > White, Frank Zappa and Jello Biafra. > > > > > > FZ? I wouldn't compare him/his work to Marvin Gaye - more like > > > polar opposites, except that both were very good at their form of > > > music... > > > While a direct comparison b/t FZ and Marvin Gaye might be stretching > > it a bit... If you can find it, check out Jean-Luc Ponty's King Kong > > on Blue Note records. The whole album was composed by Frank. It > > really opens a lot of peoples eyes to his musical genius when they > > hear it. > > Jim, I never questioned either's talents, I was focusing on the > different styles... > > Lionel > Actually I was thinking more of the style than talent issue myself. A lot of folks aren't aware that along with the Rock and Jazz usually associated with Frank Zappa, he also composed a considerable body of orchestral pieces. Marvin is definitely the mellower of the two. I would also have to give his music the nod as background music in the afore mentioned context. jim From caleb at webninja.com Sat Oct 26 18:14:00 2002 From: caleb at webninja.com (Caleb Shay) Date: 26 Oct 2002 19:14:00 -0400 Subject: [geeks] good ergo keyboard Message-ID: <1035674046.7307.3.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net> Okay, I'm in the market for a new PC keyboard, and I'm finding nothing that suits me. I like the ergonimic keyboards with the split keys (but NOT the "bowl" keyboards). I don't need a billion little "multimedia keys", but I don't really care if they are there, and I don't care if it is USB or PS/2. My only really big "NO" is I won't buy Microsoft. Anybody have any suggestions? Oh, and no wireless, they always drop characters when I try them. Cheers, Caleb [demime 0.99d.1 removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From jp at celestrion.net Sat Oct 26 18:32:38 2002 From: jp at celestrion.net (Jonathan C. Patschke) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:32:38 -0500 Subject: [geeks] Irix's wonky install In-Reply-To: <20021026202935.GB30797@peeps.cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > So, I'm not quite sure what it's talking about with that $ROOT, but it > doesn't actually seem to be talking about the environmental variable > named ROOT, since that's not set, either before or after running > install, nor in my shell. Perhaps getting rid of $ROOT would make it > work properly, but I have no thoughts on how to do that. Help? If it's not set, it is assumed that ROOT is to be '/'. Set ROOT to be the base-install directory of your application, and then specify the argument to -dir as a relative pathname. -- Jonathan Patschke "you know, there are people who like having potatoes and jellyjars shoved up their asses. there are also people who like coding in c. at any rate, why not pay somebody to hack your c instead of taking the jellyjar in your ass?" --alex j avriette From ross at mail.two-cats.net Sat Oct 26 19:36:54 2002 From: ross at mail.two-cats.net (Ross Alexander) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 20:36:54 -0400 Subject: [geeks] good ergo keyboard In-Reply-To: <1035674046.7307.3.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net>; from caleb@webninja.com on Sat, Oct 26, 2002 at 07:14:00PM -0400 References: <1035674046.7307.3.camel@Chinstrap.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20021026203654.B90797@cliff.two-cats.net> * Caleb Shay: > Okay, I'm in the market for a new PC keyboard, and I'm finding nothing > that suits me. I like the ergonimic keyboards with the split keys (but > NOT the "bowl" keyboards). I don't need a billion little "multimedia > keys", but I don't really care if they are there, and I don't care if it > is USB or PS/2. My only really big "NO" is I won't buy Microsoft. > Anybody have any suggestions? Oh, and no wireless, they always drop > characters when I try them. If you like IBM keyboards, I recommend the IBM/Lexmark M15 p/n 13H6689. It adjustable in a bunc of ways (angle between the two halves & tilt - both front to back and side to side) and the keys have a nice clicky feel. -- Ross Alexander ross at two-cats.net From wa2egp at att.net Sat Oct 26 23:58:16 2002 From: wa2egp at att.net (wa2egp at att.net) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 04:58:16 +0000 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <20021027045804.MKPY4213.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc19> > What I always find funny about agriculture is just how many people think > the resultant landscape is natural ... English people looking at > rolling green fields. It isn't natural at all as it was originally > mostly covered in forest. I just hate that old British holdover...the lawn. (No offense to our friends across the pond.) > Just how much "global warming" is due to iron age axes ? Got me. But I think we pumped a lot more nto the air since then. > > > biodiversity is in a field.....very little. One disease can wpe > > > out a crop. > > > > Hmmm...thus the reason for all the gentically engineered crops. Both > > a good and bad thing IMHO. Jury's still out on that one from my > > point of view. > > What I don't like about GE crops is the lack of diversity ... they've > engineered them to be immune to the known crop diseases. What happens > when a new crop disease springs up ? All agriculture has limited biodiversity. I'm really up in the air about GE since if you think about it, we've been doing it for centuries by breeding plants. Putting genes in a plant so it creates its own pesticides...I'm not too sure about that. > We know the answer to that one ... an Irish Potatoe famine (yes that's > at the extreme end of the possibilities). Yep. > > > We may have caught the thinning of the ozone in time through. > > > > Maybe. > > I'd go so far as to say probably, but that doesn't mean we should start > using ozone-depleting chemicals again. > > > But I still believe that we don't have enough data to make > > that judgement call. > > We never really do. Unforch we haven't discovered a good substitute for freon so the limited use seems to have reduced leakage into the atmosphere. I'd rather be safe than sorry. Bob From jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu Sun Oct 27 00:00:55 2002 From: jdboyd at cs.millersville.edu (Joshua D Boyd) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 01:00:55 -0400 Subject: [geeks] Hershey 3D Message-ID: <20021027050055.GJ30174@cs.millersville.edu> Went to Hershey's Chocolate World today, and found that they now have a "3D" show (as opposed to their old show/tour thing which was really 3D versus fake 3D). It was interesting. First, I found that polarized glasses are better then red/blue glasses, but not as great as shutter goggles. 2nd, they had rain effects, which were surprisingly effective. 3rd, the seats were rumble seats, which was as cheap a trick as always, though it got started yells from significant numbers in the theater. 4th, it featured an effect that was supposed to be rats running back through the theater. Some of my companions that something came out and actually hit their legs going by, but I tried to argue that it was probably compressed air. Any one know which it would be? It seems to me that they can't really do anything else safely or as effectively. And it was a rather effective trick. Finally, the whole thing was nifty, but I doubt it will move past the gimick stage ever, but I could be wrong. -- Joshua D. Boyd From wa2egp at att.net Sun Oct 27 00:12:58 2002 From: wa2egp at att.net (wa2egp at att.net) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 05:12:58 +0000 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <20021027051259.GWRB12639.mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc19> > But green is GOOD! Green means LIFE! Don't you like life? What's > the matter with you?! Think of the CHILDREN!! > > -Dave I'm sure you're kidding. Too much algae can be bad. It can deplete oxygen (at night), die, bacteria then starts working on the remains and everything else gets killed. Not a good thing (tm). Bob From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Oct 27 00:16:54 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 01:16:54 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021027051259.GWRB12639.mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc19> Message-ID: <4EE2940E-E96B-11D6-90F3-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Sunday, October 27, 2002, at 01:12 AM, wa2egp at att.net wrote: >> But green is GOOD! Green means LIFE! Don't you like life? What's >> the matter with you?! Think of the CHILDREN!! > > I'm sure you're kidding. Too much algae can be bad. It can deplete > oxygen > (at night), die, bacteria then starts working on the remains and > everything else > gets killed. Not a good thing (tm). Bob Dude. Read my message again. Do you really think I was serious? "Nuke an unborn gay baby whale for Jesus!" -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Mmmm, big." St. Petersburg, FL -Den From geek at geeksworld.net Sun Oct 27 00:23:43 2002 From: geek at geeksworld.net (Geek) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 00:23:43 -0500 Subject: [geeks] root equivalent user References: <20021024163310.5296CA@proven.weird.com> <3DB82D7A.7000408@speakeasy.net> <20021024190321.EF518A@proven.weird.com> <3DB86CA0.9010401@speakeasy.net> <20021025004658.A0A3DA@proven.weird.com> <20021024221806.6a07ccf4.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025051842.51B69A@proven.weird.com> <20021025093231.5fe36fc8.kurt@k-huhn.com> <20021025170024.5A0D8A@proven.weird.com> <20021025135741.20792dcd.kurt@k-huhn.com> Message-ID: <041f01c27d79$052830b0$3ece5218@RivenDell> I just ignore what Greg says, I am so used to his useless comments arrogantly telling everyone they are wrong without any usefulness. This list, I have found, is to help each other, and Greg seems to fail to see this point. He will likely argue with me, as his typical response, but I think it is clear his past remarks show my opinions to have more then a little basis in fact. Dwight Wallbridge, Managing Editor, GeekMeltdown.com GeekMeltdown http://www.geekmeltdown.com Geek's World http://www.geeksworld.net Geek Blog http://www.geekblog.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt Huhn" To: Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [geeks] root equivalent user | woods at weird.com (Greg A. Woods) wrote: | | -- | Kurt | kurt at k-huhn.com | _______________________________________________ | GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Oct 27 00:27:30 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 01:27:30 -0400 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... In-Reply-To: <20021027045804.MKPY4213.mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc19> Message-ID: On Sunday, October 27, 2002, at 12:58 AM, wa2egp at att.net wrote: >> What I always find funny about agriculture is just how many people >> think >> the resultant landscape is natural ... English people looking at >> rolling green fields. It isn't natural at all as it was originally >> mostly covered in forest. > > I just hate that old British holdover...the lawn. (No offense to > our friends across the pond.) You & me both, man. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Mmmm, big." St. Petersburg, FL -Den From wa2egp at att.net Sun Oct 27 00:28:14 2002 From: wa2egp at att.net (wa2egp at att.net) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 05:28:14 +0000 Subject: [geeks] Hershey 3D Message-ID: <20021027052814.HAIA12639.mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc19> > 4th, it featured an effect that was supposed to be rats running back > through the theater. Some of my companions that something came out and > actually hit their legs going by, but I tried to argue that it was > probably compressed air. Any one know which it would be? It seems to > me that they can't really do anything else safely or as effectively. > And it was a rather effective trick. I think they use a "brush" mounted on a motor. At least that's what it felt like to me. Bob From wa2egp at att.net Sun Oct 27 00:34:37 2002 From: wa2egp at att.net (wa2egp at att.net) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 05:34:37 +0000 Subject: [geeks] I really don't get it ... Message-ID: <20021027053437.HBQT12639.mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net@mtiwebc19> > Dude. Read my message again. Do you really think I was serious? > > "Nuke an unborn gay baby whale for Jesus!" > > -Dave After putting up with some stuff that comes from central office in my school district, ya never know ;->. Thanks for reminding me about that "politically incorrect" bumper sticker. I keep forgetting it. Bob From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Oct 27 00:36:08 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 01:36:08 -0400 Subject: [geeks] WOOHOO!! Message-ID: I had to get away from QYXie stuff a bit because it was driving me insane. It's taken me nearly two days of work with schematics, an oscilloscope, and a multimeter, but.... Wait for it... WAIT FOR IT..... My PDP-11/70 just booted RT-11!! For you weirdos who don't know what a PDP-11/70 is (though I'm sure everyone here has at least heard of them), it's t